Hi Jean-Christian de Rivaz, This is the last time I'm replying you on this thread, because no matter how nice people put it, you just whip out your 2 cents and wave it like a pass. I don't know about the others but, you don't have to prove any point to me.
People are just trying to help each other out. If you'd stop trying yo On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 3:56 PM, Jean-Christian de Rivaz <[email protected]> wrote: > Gaveen Prabhasara a écrit : > [snap] > > It's Debian's problem that they didn't package it, or ultimately >> yours. >> >> Like I said, asking MeeGo to conform to the lowest common >> denominator in ALL distros is silly. The software can be >> installed on those distros, so install it. >> >> >> Debian is certainly not the "lowest common denominator in ALL >> distros". It's actually the highest quality and complete >> distribution on this planet. Fedora don't have as many packages and >> architectures as Debian have. The fault is the strategic decision of >> Meego to use code only available on Fedora. >> >> If you could just stop typing the hell out of this thread and read what >> were the others trying to say, you could've noticed for the umpteenth >> time, that MeeGo isn't based on Fedora, nor is using exclusively >> Fedora packages, nor has endorsed Fedora as the preferred developer >> environment. >> >> And please don't start yet another Deb Vs RPM case here. MeeGo is >> using RPM and it's decided. If you start to discuss quality of distros >> it'll soon get religious. >> > > I found a bit easy to refuse to talk about quality because some people get > it as "religious". Quality is not a religion! It's facts that you can > quantify, policies and procedures to grant targeted goals. I rest my case. > > > You make at least two false points. For the first, I don't think Thiago >> meant low quality when me mentioned "lowest common denominator". >> But rather something in the lines of: >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowest_common_denominator >> > > Thanks for remind me school math. But unlike you, I think that the intent > was to say that some distribution are not worth to be supported by Meego. Oh, I'm not the person to talk to about math. :) And yes, I can see you think unlike me on this matter too. I'm just saying that I didn't get the whole "worthy-unworthy" vibe you mentioned. It just sounded like that it's not quite practical to find the common ground for every distro out there. I can't speak for Thiago or any other. It wasn't my saying. I just didn't read it the way you did. > > > For the 2nd one, as a member of the MeeGo community and an >> enthusiast I never came across or noticed that the MeeGo project >> has made a "strategic decision to use code only available on Fedora". >> Wasn't mentioned in TSG meetings, or any WG or by any of the >> employees of Nokia and Intel or LF. >> > > After reading the PR about "Day 1: opening up the Meego development" I > simply tested to do a basic image creation to see what Meego really is. The > test failed and I discover that the actual Meego have only be tested on > Fedora and require specific package only found on Fedora. I agree that > nobody have say that, but it's just the actual facts I have in my hands. If you started a thread on building images on Debian (or your distro) it could have helped more, rather than the whole lot of posts you did to prove Fedora is blessed. I'm pretty sure everyone out there trying to build MeeGo images aren't trying it on Fedora. You may have fact, other might or might nor agree. You made the point. Rubbing it everyones face and trying to convince by repeating won't take you anywhere. > > So please don't retort again, saying Fedora is given the precedence >> over any other distro. I don't know what distros will be suitable out >> of the box as MeeGo dev environments or if there's going to be a >> more easier or generic way to setup the dev env (Eg: an SDK >> installer). But if your favourite distro X is missing packages let's try >> to do something about that rather than saying "Y is unfairly blessed". >> > > I do basic testing that nobody have do, or a least let know of it. > Sorry, that didn't follow what you meant. > > [snap] > > If the goal of Meego is to provide low quality software >> uninstallable on common distribution by normal user and claim that >> it's the user fault, then you are granted to miserably fail to >> attract a valuable community. >> >> I really value your ideas, but you show a staggering tendency to give >> an ambiguous statement like the above and provide a skewed and >> potentially poisonous conclusion. >> > > No. I just let Meego people faced a basic test result in regards of all the > too optimist claims there have made to justify there strategy. I could beg to differ, but I'm not going to. So I'm not even going to ask which strategy. In other matters, if my post offended you, don't hold it against the project. It was just my post. :) > > > We are talking here about things that are not even started yet in some >> cases. It's been just a few days since Day 1. And things are starting. >> Packaging and build systems are not even public yet and a RWG is >> in the discussions. So let's be a little patient and see how it goes. >> >> And meanwhile, we can be productive. There's something called >> constructive criticism. :) >> > > Yes, this why I do the test. For me the failed result is a direct > consequence of some strategic decision about the deny of past experiences > and to be too optimist regarding the amount of work to be done without > upstream help. I would prefer to be wrong on this in the future. Time will > tell, but for me it's clear: either Meego learn to do QA to the point is > finally build something comparable to Debian, either is will simply be a > failed project that will never have a stable community. As I said earlier I appreciate your discussion and testing and all. I do mean it. It's just you sometimes make wild claims. It's not going to be good for anyone. I'm just a new guy here. But most people involved here are from the Maemo and Moblin communities and employees of Nokia/Intel/LF and also contributors of many FOSS projects. So I bet they know a thing or two about "being too optimistic". To wrap this up, I don't get what this "strategic decision" you keep talking about, but it ultimately sound like that you are not happy about some of the technical decisions made like RPM over Deb. So you are expressing your dislike of not having the comfort of your familiar toolchain, but in a wrong way. Sorry if I was being blunt. If that's the case it's you (and me and the community) who have to do something about that and make things happen. After all this is an Open Source project. :) > > > Regards, > -- > Jean-Christian de Rivaz > Cheers, -- Gaveen Prabhasara
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