On May 16, 2010, at 1:52 PM, David Greaves wrote: > > Carsten Munk wrote: >> So, this is primarily an e-mail to ask some questions to the two >> members of the TSG, that I think would not be sufficiently covered in >> a TSG meeting and answers might be better suited for the e-mail form. >> > I think there are others who can contribute to the conversation too. > > There are systems around meego that are only open to members "for technical > reasons" so the discussions around them could be opened up. (Yes, there'll be > some frustration at inaccessible links ... but that may help prioritise which > systems to allocate "opening-up" resource to. For those involved : Why isn't > this happening? What do you need to start discussions on open mailing lists?
Open Source is not just open source code - it is an open way of working. This means that we can have an opinion on the default file system in MeeGo and if we feel that btrfs is not yet ready, we can push ext3 to the repos to give ourselves a choice. The open source way of working does not yet exist in MeeGo, it is not yet an open project just a collection of git repos on gitorious. > >> We're not working in the open like we're supposed to - even though as >> has been said - Intel, Nokia and we all know how to do it! But when >> there's a big reveal mentality active, the mode of the people >> participating switches to internal/private development, even if you >> are only tangentially related to the object/UX being revealed. >> >> And I think that's the main source of all our so called 'openness' >> problems - not malice, conspiracy, laziness or whatever. I don't think there is a conspiracy or anything malicious either. These are two very large companies who now see the advantages of Open Source. It is a lot to expect that they will suddenly 'get it' and OPK and Ottellini will be showing up at FOSDEM with a penguin T-shirt and a UNIX beard. What is happening is these two large dinosaurs are learning to dance to an open source beat - that is pretty cool. I think we all need to have a bit of patience and be more proactive in helping them with the transition from proprietary and closed to open and shared. Your email was a positive, proactive step Carsten. >> For the near >> future until UX'es are out, the big reveal mentality will have to stay >> - and I respect that. I want a blazing start on a good future in this >> project with big fanfare. It's the future I'm worried about. > > It's the credibility of MeeGo as an open project that I'm worried about. It has all the credibility it needs. It has credibility inside the walled garden that is corporate Linux. MeeGo is not meant for ordinary hackers - they are encouraged to work and commit upstream. MeeGo is a 'curated computing environment' where the file system is the best of breed but the only one and MeeGo will not listen to the debate. Its a lot like Flash on the iPhone - ain't gonna happen. If MeeGo alienates a few smart hackers . . . well, they can always contribute to Debian. What MeeGo wants is the appearance of meritocratic openness while retaining control over the infrastructure. Nokia did this with Maemo, and it caused certain problems, and it looks like MeeGo will go down this path too. > >> Finally, my questions to the two members of the TSG are: > [snip] >> Thanks in advance for your answers. > I too look forward to the response - nb maybe you should cc/mail them to > ensure > they don't miss such an important discussion. They're powerless! Quim Gil is doing his level best to make sure MeeGo is as open as possible, but what leverage does he have? He can persuade people to contribute, but he can't force them. And once we have moved past deciding the forums and other bike shedding, we are back to actual work on the actual distro. (And it is a distro, no matter how close to upstream they claim it is. Debian only ships _pristine_ upstream sources, so you don't get closer to upstream than that.) MeeGo's real audience is industry. It is a standardized. GNU / Linux API with key components supported by large multinationals and a compliance path so that other large multinationals can be confident that their code will be supported and gratuitous API changes will not occur. It is a commercial Linux distro, not an open source project. Maybe that is good thing? Jeremiah _______________________________________________ MeeGo-dev mailing list [email protected] http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev
