First of all I consider myself as experienced C/C++/Java programmer.Even tough
I know other languages this is my primary area of expertise.Also I have very
good background in CS, mathematics, etc.
What I wanted to say is that rapidly-changing GPU architectures marketis not
possible to track if you are not spending significant amountof time to learn
about it and to keep informed. Learning curve is justto high.
At the same time guys from Gallium started one really nice project,where I
found myself. I saw that in Windows world something similaris happening.
Ultimately, it is industry trend.
I wanted to join to gallium community and asked one of leaders totell me number
of people, etc. His conversation with me was rathertough than welcomed. All I
got is that I have to write to mesa3d-devand hope that anyone would respond.
Exactly as one developer noticed - I had to "hijack" thread in hopethat anyone
would read it. It looks like my idea succeeded. We aretalking about that now.
Another thing that bother me, is that gallium community is very smallbut worse
thing is that some of people who are working on gallium arevery hard to
approach, even arrogant. This is certainly not way how tobuild successful
society, for sure. It looks like that they considerthemselves as that they have
some "mission" and stuffs like communityare not important at all.
Documentation, as an example, fits perfectly into my story. There is
nosuccessful community if there aren't good documentation. I really donot know
how do you imagine to develop any large-scale project ifyou do not develop
documentation concurrently with code!? Documentationis at least important as
source code is (read Donald Knuth!).
But if some developers (I do not want to say all!) consider themselvesas a
"higher class" then they will get corresponding community response.
I would like to start contributing to gallium community but behaviorof some
developers and luck of documentation simply rejects me from that.This is my
final call that you make revision of your current policyto the rest of the
world (community), and to apologize and start tocommunicate.
Regards,Uros Nedic, MSc
---------------------------------------------"Man is the lowest-cost,
150-pound, nonlinear, all-purpose computer system which can be mass-produced
by unskilled labor."-NASA in 1965
> From: b...@zhasha.com
> To: mostawesomed...@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 07:13:58 +0100
> CC: mesa3d-dev@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Mesa3d-dev] gallium docs
>
> I think instead of targeting newbies, it would be preferable to have a
> proper API documentation first. We're severely lacking in the "what
> flags go here" department, and generally it would be nice to have a key
> that explains exactly what each argument for each function is. It's
> normally not too hard to figure that out, but there are times when it
> seems a little iffy.
>
> On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 13:38 -0800, Corbin Simpson wrote:
> > I've been targeting an audience of people that have taken some CS,
> > read some Wikipedia, but aren't experienced with 3D graphics. I'd kind
> > of like it if people would go read a Red Book, even the out-of-date
> > one available free online, before diving in... If you don't know C,
> > then the docs won't teach you C. Ditto for GL, D3D, and the other
> > basics.
> >
> > 2010/1/25 Brian Paul <bri...@vmware.com>:
> > > Uros,
> > >
> > > Next time, please start a new discussion with a new subject instead of
> > > hijacking an unrelated thread. Thanks.
> > >
> > > Anyway, we're writing more detailed gallium docs under
> > > src/gallium/docs/ Have you seen those?
> > >
> > > Also bear in mind that we're probably not going to write docs
> > > specifically targetting newbies. A certain level of expertise in
> > > computer graphics is a prerequisite. If you have specific questions
> > > you can post them to the list but remember that we're all very busy
> > > and usually have to pick and choose which threads we respond to.
> > >
> > > -Brian
> > >
> > >
> > > Uros Nedic wrote:
> > >> Hi guys,
> > >>
> > >> It would be very important that your small Gallium community
> > >> could be larger if you develop some Documentation. So far,
> > >> newbies in this area hardly could enter into your project
> > >> even if we want to do it on a voluntary basis.
> > >>
> > >> I really want to contribute but please provide us at least
> > >> more than just high-level overview of Gallium architecture.
> > >>
> > >> For example I would like to know what is your "abstract"
> > >> GPU architecture (draw it please). Also I'm interested about
> > >> pipes and all those stuffs (provide us examples, please).
> > >> I know what is LLVM but I also need some example how you
> > >> use that technology for optimization (examples again).
> > >>
> > >> If you provide us (community) some nice Documentation, you
> > >> will be surprised how many people will start to contribute.
> > >>
> > >> So far learning curve is just so high - sometimes impossible
> > >> to understand some stuffs.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Uros
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------
> > >> "Man is the lowest-cost, 150-pound, nonlinear,
> > >> all-purpose computer system which can be
> > >> mass-produced by unskilled labor."
> > >> -NASA in 1965
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 18:02:53 +0100
> > >> > From: mic...@vmware.com
> > >> > To: bri...@vmware.com
> > >> > CC: mesa3d-dev@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >> > Subject: Re: [Mesa3d-dev] TGSI build and sse2 removal
> > >> >
> > >> > Brian Paul wrote on 2010-01-25 16:09:
> > >> > > José Fonseca wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > >> Michal,
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 06:27 -0800, michal wrote:
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>> I would like to have those two modules go away, as they are
> > >> maintenance
> > >> > >>> pain with no real benefits.
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> The build module has been superseded by the ureg module, and
> > >> apparently
> > >> > >>> all third-party code has already migrated or is in the process of
> > >> > >>> porting to new interface. I would like to nuke it if nobody minds.
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >> I'm fine with this.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >
> > >> > > We can't remove this until we switch to ureg in the draw code. The
> > >> > > draw_pipe_pstipple.c, draw_pipe_aaline.c and draw_pipe_aapoint.c
> > >> files
> > >> > > still haven't been converted to use tgsi_ureg. There may be some
> > >> > > other uses elsewhere. Michal, can you update that code first?
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > That's the plan.
> > >> >
> > >> > >>> For sse2, I am looking at simplifying it enough to be able to
> > >> accelerate
> > >> > >>> pass-thru fragment shaders and simple vertex shaders. That's it.
> > >> For
> > >> > >>> more sophisticated stuff we already have llvmpipe.
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >> I agree with this in principle, but I think it's better not to get
> > >> too
> > >> > >> much ahead of ourselves here: drivers are using tgsi_exec/sse2 for
> > >> > >> software vertex processing fallbacks. And while the plan is indeed
> > >> to
> > >> > >> move the LLVM JIT code generation out of llvmpipe into the
> > >> auxiliary
> > >> > >> modules so that all pipe drivers can use that for fallbacks, the
> > >> fact is
> > >> > >> we're not there yet.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> So for tgsi_sse2 I think it's better not to introduce any
> > >> performance
> > >> > >> regressions in vertex processing until llvm code generation is in
> > >> place
> > >> > >> and working for everybody.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I agree. It's too early to remove the sse2 code.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > OK, that makes sense, I will leave it alone for the time being.
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks, guys.
> > >> >
> > >> >
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