Having had both, I'd take the 3071 any day over a potato. Bill Cardell TurboDog's Dad www.flyinmiata.com 1-800-FLY-MX5S (sales) 970-242-3800 (tech) 2008 FM Open House: August 14-17
________________________________ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephanie Turner Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 12:40 PM To: 'Jerry Malsam' Cc: [email protected] Subject: RE: 300whp street '97 1.8L build Any Turbo starting n GT25 or GT28 should fit. We can also re-machine that manifold if needed. I believe the older FM turbos used were more of a GT2560. In reality, I doubt the GT2871 would go above 450 whp on the 1.8L engine. (Depending on internals and boost pressure running) But if you want to go that route, more power to ya! Power is addicting you know. J I think that either the 2871 or the 2860 would serve you well for a street car. I have not driven a 2871, so I cannot directly compare the drive ability of both turbos. But several customers have ordered them. The 3071 would have much slower spool up for a lower boost application, so you might find that it is not as much fun to drive. I, personally, would not use larger than the 2871 for my personal use car. Hope that helps! Stephanie BEGi/Bell Engineering Phone: 830-438-2890 Fax: 830-438-8361 www.bellengineering.net From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jerry Malsam Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 1:37 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: 300whp street '97 1.8L build Thanks for the help, Stephanie. Silly question: I'm looking at the Garrett site(http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/catelog/Turbochargers/ turbo_comparison_sheet.htm)... Will any turbo of GT25something or GT28something fit my old FM2/Bell cast log manifold? What model number is the old FM2 T25/28 sleeve turbo anyhow? Is that the GT2860R? Also, looking at the GT2871 on the chart, it's spec-ed for 250 - 480 hp, depending on compressor size. Seems too big to me, but you're the second person to suggest that very turbo. Since I'm shooting for "just" 300whp for the street, it looks to me like the GT2860RS (250 - 360hp) is more appropriately sized... or are you thinking that after drivetrain/efficiency losses it'd be maxed out? (Or are you just wanting to see me in a 450hp Miata?? ok twist my arm, heh...) At this point, I'm leaning towards just freshening my '99 head (prolly just valve guides) and leaving it stock. But thanks for John's contact info -- my local guy isn't returning voice mail, and we have several other projects going on that will require some lovin. --Jerry On 3/17/08, Stephanie Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The old manifold will work fine. Just be sure to use it with a turbo that has the GT25/28 bolt pattern flange. 300 whp is reaching the upper limits of the T25/T28 hybrid that you have, so you might want to try the GT2871. You will probably have to go with the lighter "Pro" Flywheel as ACT has discontinued the other one. However, someone might still have the street disc on the shelf. Try calling John Long at 512-472-4977 @ JC Auto Spec for the head work. He does all of our engine builds and does a good job. Stephanie BEGi/Bell Engineering Phone: 830-438-2890 Fax: 830-438-8361 www.bellengineering.net <http://www.bellengineering.net/> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jerry Malsam Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 11:43 AM To: [email protected] Subject: 300whp street '97 1.8L build Spring is upon us, and the time has come to "upgrade" my old '97 1.8L FM II turbo system (230wftlb/230whp) and get the car back on the road. I've been out of the loop for a while (my excuse = Spec Miata!), so I'm looking for some current build/planning advice to reach my power goal of a *streetable* 300whp on 93 octane -- can I get there from here or am I being unrealistic? First things first, I need to cut my engine builder loose on ordering engine parts. The old engine will be mostly replaced, keeping only the stock block and crank. The old block has some taper and will need to be bored to at least 0.020" over, IIRC. (I'm probably going 0.040"/1mm over, as that leaves some room for future rebuild while allowing the use of off-the-shelf pistons.) I have a used '99 head for the project. - These coated, 9:1 FM Wiseco pistons look perfect: http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php...10%20%201990-93 <http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?deptid=4530&parentid=0&stocknumber= 04-69110%20%201990-93> - Carrillo A-beam rods should be fine: http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php...number=04-66005 <http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?deptid=4530&parentid=0&stocknumber= 04-66005> - What prep work should I spec for the '99 head? (The FM-prepped head looks nice, but wow pricey!) Thinking ahead to the turbo system: - I had the old FM2 turbo rebuilt -- a Garrett T25/28 hybrid (IIRC), sleeve bearing, water/oil cooled -- but I'm thinking I need to just sell it and get a bigger turbo (for the hp goal) with ball-bearing (for decent spool). What is an appropriate unit that will fit the Garrett flange? Can I stick with an integral wastegate (for simplicity/cost)? My plan is to run about 230whp every day, with another 70hp on tap for "special occasions" via electronic boost control (nifty Apex'i AVC-R). - I'd like to keep the old cast log-type exhaust manifold for reliability. Will this thing flow well-enough to keep up or should I look at a tubular model? - Upgrade old FM2 downpipe? I don't know what new/improved models are out there. - I currently have RC Engineering 550cc injectors. Are they adequate to the task? I probably should upgrade the fuel pump, as I think I'm still on the stock unit. - I'm hoping to retain my old FM Link to save cost, but will upgrade to an AEM EMS if need be. (I have a good bit of experience with this ECU from tuning my friend's F Production race car.) - DDMWorks has an amazingly efficient intercooler and they can help with some cleaner, custom piping. Other bits: - I have an upgraded FM aluminum radiator, and I plan to add a real oil cooler as well. Unfortunately, I need to keep the air-conditioning for the hot/humid South Carolina summers. - I'm having the stock 5-speed tranny rebuilt. Will this thing hold up for, say, at least 20k miles in stock form or is it completely hopeless? Is it true that the later 6-speed is more reliable? - The clutch/flywheel need replacing. Looks like the FM "super-size happy meal" is the way to go, probably the lighter 10.3lb flywheel: http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php...6000%20%2013.45 <http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?deptid=4531&parentid=0&stocknumber= 08-36000%20%2013.45> Well, that's my thinking so far; please jump in if you see something amiss or just want to confirm my thinking. I should note that while I'm a big fan of FM, I'm by no means married to them -- if somebody else is doing Great Things these days, I'm all ears! (FYI, also posted to miata.net <http://miata.net/> Turbo forum) Thanks! --Jerry
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