Math [the engineer's kind, not from Gore or the newspapers]:
Gasoline is 47mj/kg
LiH batteries .4mj/kg and you cannot use more than 85% and recharge well. I
think 1% is a generous number.
Packaging the batteries is difficult. The higher efficiency ones require their
own heating and cooling systems. The final weights are not given. Crash
damage, and defense also is a big unknown. Look up the toxicity of Any hydride.
Typically fatal in the PPB range. They block your hemoglobin and you suffocate
immediately and there is no cure or defense. Where's the concern over that?
Rare earth magnets to improve motors are great, efficiencies are above IC
engines, but all of the refineries are in China. Oh, they are refining tailings
from Alaska Ti mines where our greenies have prevented further refineries to be
built.
Dennis Hale
From: Russ <[email protected]>
>To: Miata Power List <[email protected]>
>Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 9:45 PM
>Subject: Re: Miata electric conversion
>
>
>If you do the math, you'll find you're off by a factor of 5: it's more like
>5%. But when you compensate for the weight of the other gas related items:
>fuel pump, filter, larger tranny, heavier engine, etc., the battery's
>energy/weight improves.
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Democracy: Freedom for the Majority.
>Liberty: Freedom for All.
>
>
>
>On Sep 29, 2011, at 6:13 PM, Dennis Hale wrote:
>
>We had a leading edge battery development company in the next town over. It
>went to Mexico under NAFTA. All the 'Mericans were fired. Starting with the
>engineers. I have the shop tables and some of the maintenance goodies in my
>shop now. If those promised batteries were going to happen as the politicians
>have planned, it wouldn't have all been given away. I hope those politicians
>are at least greedy enough to understand this. Oh, and NOTHING further has
>happened in Mexico. No surprise there, right?
>>In the end, NO batteries have been developed that hold even 1% as much energy
>>by weight or volume as gasoline. This is NOT going to change soon no matter
>>how many nonengineering types wish it so. Also, a battery is just an energy
>>storage device, not an energy source. A cell phone is a way lighter mass than
>>a person to haul around. Golf carts are about as big as batteries really are
>>effective for. There are some forklifts and of course locomotives that run
>>electrics, but they are far from what a Miata is, and they are not new or
>>magic.
>>During the Carter scare my buddy and I converted a VW to electric power. We
>>bolted a forklift motor to the transaxle and filled it up with car batteries
>>until the tires wanted to burst. It sort of ran for about 30 miles, then
>>needed a couple of days to recharge and was great fun for about a week. We
>>pretended that we would stick a portable generator in the car to charge the
>>batteries. Hey, we were 30 years ahead of that! Maybe better yet a third
>>motor of some sort would be good! Haw about a jet powered freeway merge
>>system? Then we were back to our "horse and buggy" real cars. Can you show
>>any real effort on your behalf to justify this lecture/ debate?
>>Batteries and steam were more popular than gasoline until Mr Ford made it
>>far otherwise [in spite of very little infrastructure to source gasoline],
>>not a good debate point for you maybe to cite Ford.
>>Maybe we all ought to pray for Doc Brown's Mr Fusion box. And Unicorns.
>>
>>Dennis Hale
>>
>>From: Donni Howell <[email protected]>
>>>To: Dennis Hale <[email protected]>
>>>Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
>>>Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:34 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Miata electric conversion
>>>
>>>
>>>I wish we had email records from back when the "horseless carriage" was
>>>introduced. I'm sure many considered it stupid, since most people that could
>>>afford them probably already had horses. Why bother changing anything, ever?
>>>
>>>There will be battery technology innovation that makes it more viable, and
>>>there will be a Henry Ford (more likely a corporation of one sort or another
>>>of course) that can make it all affordable. I heart the internal combustion
>>>engine and it's glorious symphony of mechanical and combustion noises and
>>>complexity; but it isn't infinitely sustainable. It won't disappear from the
>>>earth for a good while yet, but it will be replaced over time just like all
>>>technological marvels.
>>>
>>>You don't have to embrace it, but change is the only thing you can count on
>>>to stay the same.
>>>
>>>
>>>On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Dennis Hale <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>Will it be so fuzzy happy after "they" figure out that you owe $2500 a year
>>>in "fair" road maintenance tax you're not paying at the pump? Will "they"
>>>just add road tax to all electrical bills? And when "they" delete the $7500
>>>subsidy to the folks rich enough to play the electric game will it still be
>>>so good to putt along in the truck lanes in a heavy short range sled? Is
>>>this the Miata list or the Toyota Pious list?
>>>>Dennis Hale
>>>>
>>>>From: Brian Pifer <[email protected]>
>>>>>To: Larry Alster <[email protected]>
>>>>>Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>; "[email protected]"
>>>>><[email protected]>
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 10:14 AM
>>>>>
>>>>>Subject: RE: Miata electric conversion
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I don’t normally chime in because others have more knowledge and are
>>>>>faster than I. But I take issue with your assertion that “battery
>>>>>electric cars are still a stupid idea.”
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes, they have drawbacks (limited range & higher initial cost), but they
>>>>>also have advantages (lower operating cost & less foreign oil
>>>>>dependence). Current electric cars are not for everyone and you really
>>>>>need a second “long distance” car for road trips.
>>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Miatapower mailing list
>>>>[email protected]
>>>>http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>"It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of
>>>virtue..."
>>>-Queen Elizabeth II
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>Miatapower mailing list
>>[email protected]
>>http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
>>
>
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