Another solution for clean power that's not foreign sourced: Believe it or not - there is real Clean Coal technology and it IS growing now in this country and others. It comes in the form of Coal gasification. The coal is not burned but heated up to a high temperature. The useful volatile compounds are driven off and the sulfur, arsenic, etc. are left in the coal and the various bad oxides are not created. Basically you end up with granulated carbon and SynGas (Hydrogen & some CO) and CO2. The CO2 can be sequestered and the SynGas cleaned up and used to drive turbines directly to generate electricity or it can be turned into an ultra-clean diesel fuel. This has been around a while but it's normally done with gasifiers that used water, which has many disadvantages. What's new is called the TRIG process <http://www.kbr.com/Technologies/Coal-Gasification/> , it gets rid of the water and can use the lowest grade coals making this much more economical and environmentally advantageous.
Two big plants using the TRIG process are in production. One is in Dongguan <http://fossilfuel.energy-business-review.com/news/southern_company_to_deplo y_trig_technology_in_china_090917> China and the other is in Kemper County Mississippi <http://www.mississippipower.com/kemper/IGCC_BROCHURE.pdf> . These are both generating electricity. As I mentioned previously, instead of electricity, coal (or other biofuels) can also be turned into synthetic gas and then turned into ultra-clean diesel fuel using the Fischer-Tropsch <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer%E2%80%93Tropsch_process> process. That could then be used to power turbo-diesels, the result: we all get to drive Larry's "real cars", using the current fuel distribution system to get it to the masses, and we significantly cut down on emissions, not to mention our dependence on foreign oil. And did I mention it's not expensive? _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tony Cooper Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 3:38 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: NMC/NPC The problem with electric cars is that the US electrical grid is barely able to keep pace as it is now. I've talked with the manager of our local electric co-op here in central NC. He made it clear that if even 15% of his customer base required electrical charging requirements it would overwhelm the co-ops capacity and that of PSG & Duke Energy. The excess reserves are simply do not exist today. Rolling brownouts are predicted on both coasts of the USA within 5 years at present growth rates of energy consumption. Most all domestic coal plants are being forced to close by this administration and many new generating plants need to be built... best choice right now are 4th generation thorium plants. Next point, electric cars have a very big carbon footprint. Lots of trace and heavy metals, expensive manufacturing processes, big recycling efforts. One study showed the Prius has a larger carbon print the a Hummer. This foot print begins at production and ends at the scrape yard. Final point, electrics simply move the pollution ( IF you consider CO2 to be a pollutant (I do not, but that is another discussion)) from the individual car to the smokestacks of power plants Until we see a 'Mr Fusion" break though technology, electrics will be fun, but no more then a temporary bandaid and a feel good political statement about greenies. Tony On 9/29/2011 3:15 PM, Bill Cardell wrote: Just to lob one in, it looks like in 2008 the US generated 37 times as much electricity from US mined coal as from oil and 16 times as much from natural gas (again domestic) as from oil. Living in the West with separate surface and mineral rights, domestic drilling becomes far more personal, when a gas or oil company can move onto the land I own and drill for the minerals below that they own without my permission in some circumstances. If Brian is happy with his electric car, why beat him up for it? I would consider building a battery Miata just for the hell of it and because I have other cars to drive should I need the range. A 90 mile range would cover most of my work days. Wouldn't take us to Newfoundland.... Bill Cardell TurboDog's Dad <http://www.flyinmiata.com/> Flyin' Miata HELP FLYIN' MIATA GO TO TARGA NEWFOUNDLAND! <http://www.flyinmiata.com/projects/targa/index.php> Targa Miata Facebook page <http://www.facebook.com/pages/Flyin-Miatas-at-Targa-Newfoundland/1444880456 05566> <http://www.fmwestfield.com/> FMWestfield Sales 1-800-359-6957 Tech 970-464-5600 Before you call, check out http://www.flyinmiata.com/FAQ/ _____ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry Alster Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:19 PM To: 'Brian Pifer' Cc: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: RE: Miata electric conversion Sorry I stand by my statement Almost everyone in the country has to pay for electricity therefore the cost isn't magically low number for the average person. Also your statement about less dependency on foreign oil is BS since again for most people they have to buy the electricity and where do you think most of it comes from??? Again as for your statement about a zillion ways to make electricity, most is oil. Until we build more nuclear plants in this country most electricity is oil generated. The thing that is going to make a difference in our national energy supply and national security isn't a few battery powered cars but getting our politicians heads out of their butts and allowing us to drill and refine our own oil and build nuclear plants here. Until then be happy with your little battery powered toy and the majority of us will be happy with real cars. Larry Alster 91 Miata White Knight 92 Miata Silver Bullet 92 Miata Honey B 04 MSM MX-5 Whooosh 06 WRX STi Subie From: Brian Pifer [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 1:14 PM To: Larry Alster Cc: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: RE: Miata electric conversion I don't normally chime in because others have more knowledge and are faster than I. But I take issue with your assertion that "battery electric cars are still a stupid idea." Yes, they have drawbacks (limited range & higher initial cost), but they also have advantages (lower operating cost & less foreign oil dependence). Current electric cars are not for everyone and you really need a second "long distance" car for road trips. But just like a diesel pickup is great for towing, an electric car is great for commuting. I drive just over 100 miles on some days and 70 or so on most. My car will easily do 80 on the highway with plenty of power left for passing. I don't spare the accelerator pedal and haven't changed any of my driving habits. It's a real car. I pay .03 per mile to drive my electric car versus .13 per mile to drive my midsize sedan. I paid a $15,000 premium for the electric car (without incentives) and it will take 150,000 miles to even that out. I drive 25k miles per year, so in 6 years, I'll be even. But for me, the real advantage is that we've got a zillion ways to make electricity, but a whole lot less ways to make gas. No more of my money will go to middle east countries that hate America. Since I have solar panels on my roof, I am 100% in control of my transportation costs. That's worth a lot to me. An electric car my not suit your needs or driving style - that's ok. But for up to 80% of Americans, it could. And that could make a very real difference in national energy supply and national security. Brian From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry Alster Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 6:56 AM To: 'Ray Ayala' Cc: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: RE: Miata electric conversion That's not totally fair since you get rid of the weight of the IC engine. That said battery electric cars are still a stupid idea. Larry Alster 91 Miata White Knight 92 Miata Silver Bullet 92 Miata Honey B 04 MSM MX-5 Whooosh 06 WRX STi Subie From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Ayala Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 9:13 AM Cc: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: Miata electric conversion See how you like driving around with 250lbs of sandbags in the car before spending money on 250lbs of batteries. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Loe <mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] ; [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 9:49 PM Subject: Re: Miata electric conversion Okay I'm much more a "track nerd" than an "eco nerd", so I'm not really in the target demographic for this product. But ~$15k to turn a Miata into an electric with a 90 mile range? Suddenly I can think of about 100 more interesting things to do with $15k. Steven Loe On Sep 28, 2011, at 9:43 PM, [email protected] wrote: Here is an interesting 'power' idea for the early Miata: electric conversion kit. I'd call it: PEVmiata. Will FM be building these? Hard to say Flyin' Miata and battery power in the same sentence with a straight face. Much like the V-8 conversions are the average-man's super-car, this could be the average-man's Tesla Roadster. http://green.autoblog.com/2011/09/28/new-kit-makes-converting-your-miata-to- electric-power-easier-tha/ http://www.evmiata.com/ Interesting indeed! Jim in Tucson _______________________________________________ Miatapower mailing list [email protected] http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower _____ _______________________________________________ Miatapower mailing list [email protected] http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower _______________________________________________ Miatapower mailing list [email protected] http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower
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