I was looking at real world data: Nissan Leaf Battery Pack Weight: 660lbs Nissan Leaf Range: 100mi 6.6 lbs/mi
WRX (similar weight) MPG: 20. Gasoline weighs about 7 lbs/gal 0.35 lbs/mi 0.35 / 6.6 = .05 5% ------------------------------------------------------- There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games. - Ernest Hemingway On Sep 29, 2011, at 10:35 PM, Dennis Hale wrote: > Math [the engineer's kind, not from Gore or the newspapers]: > Gasoline is 47mj/kg > LiH batteries .4mj/kg and you cannot use more than 85% and recharge well. I > think 1% is a generous number. > Packaging the batteries is difficult. The higher efficiency ones require > their own heating and cooling systems. The final weights are not given. Crash > damage, and defense also is a big unknown. Look up the toxicity of Any > hydride. Typically fatal in the PPB range. They block your hemoglobin and you > suffocate immediately and there is no cure or defense. Where's the concern > over that? > Rare earth magnets to improve motors are great, efficiencies are above IC > engines, but all of the refineries are in China. Oh, they are refining > tailings from Alaska Ti mines where our greenies have prevented further > refineries to be built. > > Dennis Hale > From: Russ <[email protected]> > To: Miata Power List <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 9:45 PM > Subject: Re: Miata electric conversion > > If you do the math, you'll find you're off by a factor of 5: it's more like > 5%. But when you compensate for the weight of the other gas related items: > fuel pump, filter, larger tranny, heavier engine, etc., the battery's > energy/weight improves. > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > Democracy: Freedom for the Majority. > Liberty: Freedom for All. > > > > On Sep 29, 2011, at 6:13 PM, Dennis Hale wrote: > >> We had a leading edge battery development company in the next town over. It >> went to Mexico under NAFTA. All the 'Mericans were fired. Starting with the >> engineers. I have the shop tables and some of the maintenance goodies in my >> shop now. If those promised batteries were going to happen as the >> politicians have planned, it wouldn't have all been given away. I hope those >> politicians are at least greedy enough to understand this. Oh, and NOTHING >> further has happened in Mexico. No surprise there, right? >> In the end, NO batteries have been developed that hold even 1% as much >> energy by weight or volume as gasoline. This is NOT going to change soon no >> matter how many nonengineering types wish it so. Also, a battery is just an >> energy storage device, not an energy source. A cell phone is a way lighter >> mass than a person to haul around. Golf carts are about as big as batteries >> really are effective for. There are some forklifts and of course locomotives >> that run electrics, but they are far from what a Miata is, and they are not >> new or magic. >> During the Carter scare my buddy and I converted a VW to electric power. We >> bolted a forklift motor to the transaxle and filled it up with car batteries >> until the tires wanted to burst. It sort of ran for about 30 miles, then >> needed a couple of days to recharge and was great fun for about a week. We >> pretended that we would stick a portable generator in the car to charge the >> batteries. Hey, we were 30 years ahead of that! Maybe better yet a third >> motor of some sort would be good! Haw about a jet powered freeway merge >> system? Then we were back to our "horse and buggy" real cars. Can you show >> any real effort on your behalf to justify this lecture/ debate? >> Batteries and steam were more popular than gasoline until Mr Ford made it >> far otherwise [in spite of very little infrastructure to source gasoline], >> not a good debate point for you maybe to cite Ford. >> Maybe we all ought to pray for Doc Brown's Mr Fusion box. And Unicorns. >> >> Dennis Hale >> From: Donni Howell <[email protected]> >> To: Dennis Hale <[email protected]> >> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:34 AM >> Subject: Re: Miata electric conversion >> >> I wish we had email records from back when the "horseless carriage" was >> introduced. I'm sure many considered it stupid, since most people that could >> afford them probably already had horses. Why bother changing anything, ever? >> >> There will be battery technology innovation that makes it more viable, and >> there will be a Henry Ford (more likely a corporation of one sort or another >> of course) that can make it all affordable. I heart the internal combustion >> engine and it's glorious symphony of mechanical and combustion noises and >> complexity; but it isn't infinitely sustainable. It won't disappear from the >> earth for a good while yet, but it will be replaced over time just like all >> technological marvels. >> >> You don't have to embrace it, but change is the only thing you can count on >> to stay the same. >> >> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Dennis Hale <[email protected]> wrote: >> Will it be so fuzzy happy after "they" figure out that you owe $2500 a year >> in "fair" road maintenance tax you're not paying at the pump? Will "they" >> just add road tax to all electrical bills? And when "they" delete the $7500 >> subsidy to the folks rich enough to play the electric game will it still be >> so good to putt along in the truck lanes in a heavy short range sled? Is >> this the Miata list or the Toyota Pious list? >> Dennis Hale >> From: Brian Pifer <[email protected]> >> To: Larry Alster <[email protected]> >> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>; "[email protected]" >> <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 10:14 AM >> >> Subject: RE: Miata electric conversion >> >> I don’t normally chime in because others have more knowledge and are faster >> than I. But I take issue with your assertion that “battery electric cars >> are still a stupid idea.” >> >> Yes, they have drawbacks (limited range & higher initial cost), but they >> also have advantages (lower operating cost & less foreign oil dependence). >> Current electric cars are not for everyone and you really need a second >> “long distance” car for road trips. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Miatapower mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower >> >> >> >> >> -- >> "It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of >> virtue..." >> -Queen Elizabeth II >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Miatapower mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower > > > _______________________________________________ > Miatapower mailing list > [email protected] > http://list.miatapower.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/miatapower > >
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