Hey All, re: Martin’s earlier email
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Martin McEvoy <mar...@weborganics.co.uk> wrote: > <span class="vcard"> > <span class="fn">George Washington</span> > </span> I think the issue you had with the microdata equivalent was brevity/simplicity, correct? While the ‘n’ class optimisation isn’t in the microdata vocabulary, and I’ve already covered how for non-Western style names this doesn’t apply (and is potentially harmful), I forgot about the profile attribute: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Profile The difference is in microdata a profile (vocabulary) link is required via @itemtype, whereas it’s a “_should_” in microformats. If we add a profile to my previous non-English example results in a draw for me in the simplicity stakes: <link rel="profile" href="http://microformats.org/profile/hcard";> … <span class="vcard" lang="ja"> <span class="fn n"> <span class="family-name">スタッドホルム</span>・ <span class="given-name">オリ</span> </span> </span> <span itemscope itemtype="http://microformats.org/profile/hcard"; lang="ja"> <span itemprop="fn n"> <span itemprop="family-name">スタッドホルム</span>・ <span itemprop="given-name">オリ</span> </span> </span> Of course if you can use implied ‘n’ optimisation microformats are definitely simpler, but the difference is less pronounced when using @profile: <link rel="profile" href="http://microformats.org/profile/hcard";> … <span class="vcard"> <span class="fn">Oli Studholme</span> </span> <span itemscope itemtype="http://microformats.org/profile/hcard"; lang="ja"> <span itemprop="fn n"><span itemprop="given-name">Oli</span> <span itemprop="family-name">Studholme</span></span> </span> Of course, no one actually uses @profile with microformats, so it’s probably a moot point :D Finally thank you for pointing out the nested fn and n itemprops in the spec example which should be in the same itemprop. I filed a bug: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10159 On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Scott Reynen <sc...@randomchaos.com> wrote: > I'd suggest removing the entire vocabulary-specific section altogether. As > mentioned in the same page, microdata is aiming to solve a different problem > than microformats, so it's misleading to suggest specific vocabularies are > actually alternatives to specific microformats by talking about them > vis-a-vis microformats. I’m sorry, but what text are you referring to? What I see is: “microdata is an extension to HTML5 that provides another way to embed microformats and poshformats vocabularies” > Put another way, that section violates DRY. Because microdata is aiming to > solve a different problem, *no* microdata vocabulary could possibly be > recommended in place of a specific microformat, so it's redundant to go into > the ways in which a specific microdata vocabulary goes against microformat > principles, principles it's not even attempting to follow. Out of curiosity what do you perceive are the different problems that microformats and microdata are trying to solve? I personally see microformats as a grass-roots movement that uses the tools available to extend HTML with extra semantics. Currently this is accomplished using @class, @rel etc. I see microdata as a new tool in HTML5 that would also be suitable for using with microformats, so I’m wondering what’s up with all the negativity directed toward microdata in these replies. @Tantek: It seems the current inclusion of vcard and vevent vocabularies in the HTML5 spec is something of a problem (at least based on the IMO incorrect comments in the wiki I’ve pointed out above), so I wonder how is progress going on the 1.0.1 versions that Hixie said he’d be happy to link to as normative versions? Ref: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20090717#l-335 According to Hixie the vcard/vevent vocabularies are in the spec as examples of how to write a microdata vocabulary, so could presumably be changed with something else (“the vcard one is basically a proof of concept to show that it is possible to design a vocabulary in very little time and to show how to write a spec for one”) ref: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20100713#l-884 Finally, I wonder how I can assist in the documentation of how to use any microformat via microdata? ref: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20090717#l-437 # [10:36] <boblet> tantek: will current Microformats be released in Microdata format at some stage? # [10:37] <tantek> boblet - doubtful. but will likely happen is that microformats.org will document how to use *any* microformat generically using microdata syntax. watch this page for updates: http://microformats.org/wiki/html5 peace - oli @boblet _______________________________________________ microformats-discuss mailing list microformats-discuss@microformats.org http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-discuss
