On 31 Dec, 13:01, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Dec 31, 11:48 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On 30 Dec, 17:45, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Evidence for a plan: none.
> > > Evidence against a plan:
> > > 1) The appendix
> > > 2) other vestigial organs.
>
> > Why do you think that Evolution couldn't be a part of a plan?
>
> Easy, evolution is an effect, not a cause.
>
In a cause-and-effect world, it has to be one or the other. In
reality, though, every change that is effected through evolution,
allows for new effects to be caused thereby, as well. Every event is
BOTH cause and effect, excepting a first cause and last effect. We
don't know, for sure, what the former was, and I'm sure we' can't
possibly note the latter, as no effects can occur after the last one.
>
>
> > > 3) Religion
>
> > Or diversity of thought
>
> And that too.
>
>
>
> > > 4) Cancer.
>
> > or change over time
>
> I think we dealt with evolution.
>
>
>
> > > 5) The existence of Jade Goody
>
> > or diversity within a species
>
> Yep, drongos.
>
LOL!!
>
>
> > > 6) ad infinitem....
>
> > or any number of thoughtless (that is, not well thought-out) cop-outs.
>
> I could go on, but i'm still waiting for some evidence of a plan to
> consider.
>
There's plenty of things to consider as evidence; the problem is that,
exactly, NONE of them are conclusive.
>
>
> > > Okham's razor is good enough for most things, this included.
>
> > > If you want to argue for a plan then go ahead, but I reject the plan
> > > idea for the same set of reasons that I reject astrology.
>
> > Funny, I'd have thought the existence of Cancer (the constellation)
> > would be evidence FOR astrology.
>
> It was not that sort that I had in mind. The constellation does not
> exist. It is nothing more than a pattern of stars that is observable
> from earth. If you were to travel away from earth it disappears, just
> like other human delusions and illusions.
>
Absolutely! You wouldn't have to travel all that far to see
changes in constellations formed by nearby clusters like Orion or Ursa
Major. It's even difficult to call them patterns without also being
well-versed in Earth-based lifeforms and mythology.
> > But seriously, none of those reasons
> > point towards 'no plan' any more than they, of necessity, pont to a
> > plan.
>
> Of course they do. In the same way that crime point to inadequate
> policing, or death point to a lack of breathing.
Or that criminals always start off drinking milk? I always liked that
as an example of both bad logic and how statistics can be misleading.
> In the total absence of evidence for a thing, it is futile and
> childlike to believe that such things as fairies exist. But then all
> YOU have to do is believe in them and Tinkerbell is saved!
>
As I said, there's plenty of things that one could consider as
evidence for either side of the argument; it's just that none of them
are conclusive, so we still have to believe irrespective of any
considerable evidence.
> There is still no conclusive evidence for either argument. And
>
> > I've seen depiction of Willian of Ockham with a beard, so not even HE
> > used his razor all the time. ;-)
>
> My radiotherapy treatment on my neck means that I only have to use my
> razor 50% as much as I used to - at least it has done some good!
Well, let's hope it does the trick. All the best for the New Year,
Chaz. You could use a decent break!
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