"Egypt is a nice peaceful area to forget about minor symptoms, true." - gabby
For Qutb (Sayyid), not so much! On Dec 31, 5:39 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > If we discover the non-particles we will no doubt see a great deal > more of the "plan" of matter. We do not talk of evolution with any > such precision and can thus know nothing of its plan until we know > more of it. I have arranged for Chaz to be kept out of Egypt for a > while as I make my first visits to Cairo soon (not really Old chap - > ice cold in Alex and all that!). > > On 31 Dec 2008, 23:35, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On Dec 31, 7:56 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Egypt is a nice peaceful area to forget about minor symptoms, true. > > > But I'm a bit embarassed by my American passport, erhghg! > > Have a good new year! > > > > On 31 Dez., 15:43, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On Dec 31, 2:22 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On 31 Dec, 13:01, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On Dec 31, 11:48 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > On 30 Dec, 17:45, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Evidence for a plan: none. > > > > > > > > Evidence against a plan: > > > > > > > > 1) The appendix > > > > > > > > 2) other vestigial organs. > > > > > > > > Why do you think that Evolution couldn't be a part of a plan? > > > > > > > Easy, evolution is an effect, not a cause. > > > > > > In a cause-and-effect world, it has to be one or the other. In > > > > > reality, though, every change that is effected through evolution, > > > > > allows for new effects to be caused thereby, as well. Every event is > > > > > BOTH cause and effect, excepting a first cause and last effect. We > > > > > don't know, for sure, what the former was, and I'm sure we' can't > > > > > possibly note the latter, as no effects can occur after the last one. > > > > > This is simply wrong headed. Things change and therefore they evolve. > > > > Evolution is a term we apply to this concept. It is not and cannot be > > > > a cause of change. Evolution is the result of change. If an elephant > > > > evolves big ears which enable it to cool its blood, you cannot say > > > > that this will further its survivability when the future is unknown to > > > > it and unknown to "evolution". Evolution is not a thing that can > > > > respond, it is that response. This is basically what archytas was > > > > batting on about when he claims that "survival of the fittest" is > > > > misunderstood. > > > > > > > > > 3) Religion > > > > > > > > Or diversity of thought > > > > > > > And that too. > > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer. > > > > > > > > or change over time > > > > > > > I think we dealt with evolution. > > > > > > > > > 5) The existence of Jade Goody > > > > > > > > or diversity within a species > > > > > > > Yep, drongos. > > > > > > LOL!! > > > > > > > > > 6) ad infinitem.... > > > > > > > > or any number of thoughtless (that is, not well thought-out) > > > > > > > cop-outs. > > > > > > > I could go on, but i'm still waiting for some evidence of a plan to > > > > > > consider. > > > > > > There's plenty of things to consider as evidence; the problem is that, > > > > > exactly, NONE of them are conclusive. > > > > > Point to one! > > > > > > > > > Okham's razor is good enough for most things, this included. > > > > > > > > > If you want to argue for a plan then go ahead, but I reject the > > > > > > > > plan > > > > > > > > idea for the same set of reasons that I reject astrology. > > > > > > > > Funny, I'd have thought the existence of Cancer (the > > > > > > > constellation) > > > > > > > would be evidence FOR astrology. > > > > > > > It was not that sort that I had in mind. The constellation does not > > > > > > exist. It is nothing more than a pattern of stars that is observable > > > > > > from earth. If you were to travel away from earth it disappears, > > > > > > just > > > > > > like other human delusions and illusions. > > > > > > Absolutely! You wouldn't have to travel all that far to see > > > > > changes in constellations formed by nearby clusters like Orion or Ursa > > > > > Major. It's even difficult to call them patterns without also being > > > > > well-versed in Earth-based lifeforms and mythology. > > > > > Humans are obsessed with pattern recognition. This is both a bane and > > > > a benefit. > > > > > > > > But seriously, none of those reasons > > > > > > > point towards 'no plan' any more than they, of necessity, pont to > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > plan. > > > > > > > Of course they do. In the same way that crime point to inadequate > > > > > > policing, or death point to a lack of breathing. > > > > > > Or that criminals always start off drinking milk? I always liked that > > > > > as an example of both bad logic and how statistics can be misleading. > > > > > Are you not shooting yourself in the foot? Nice example by the way: > > > > ban milk! > > > > > > > In the total absence of evidence for a thing, it is futile and > > > > > > childlike to believe that such things as fairies exist. But then all > > > > > > YOU have to do is believe in them and Tinkerbell is saved! > > > > > > As I said, there's plenty of things that one could consider as > > > > > evidence for either side of the argument; it's just that none of them > > > > > are conclusive, so we still have to believe irrespective of any > > > > > considerable evidence. > > > > > And as I have requested, name one! > > > > > > > There is still no conclusive evidence for either argument. And > > > > > > > > I've seen depiction of Willian of Ockham with a beard, so not > > > > > > > even HE > > > > > > > used his razor all the time. ;-) > > > > > > > My radiotherapy treatment on my neck means that I only have to use > > > > > > my > > > > > > razor 50% as much as I used to - at least it has done some good! > > > > > > Well, let's hope it does the trick. All the best for the New Year, > > > > > Chaz. You could use a decent break! > > > > > We are trying to decide on Egypt or somewhere more salubrious. What I > > > > really need is a break from think about cancer and relating it to > > > > every minor symptom I have. It's a time wasting bastard!!- Hide quoted > > > > text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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