On Dec 31, 7:56 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote:
> Egypt is a nice peaceful area to forget about minor symptoms, true.
But I'm a bit embarassed by my American passport, erhghg!
Have a good new year!
>
> On 31 Dez., 15:43, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 31, 2:22 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On 31 Dec, 13:01, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 31, 11:48 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > On 30 Dec, 17:45, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Evidence for a plan: none.
> > > > > > Evidence against a plan:
> > > > > > 1) The appendix
> > > > > > 2) other vestigial organs.
>
> > > > > Why do you think that Evolution couldn't be a part of a plan?
>
> > > > Easy, evolution is an effect, not a cause.
>
> > > In a cause-and-effect world, it has to be one or the other. In
> > > reality, though, every change that is effected through evolution,
> > > allows for new effects to be caused thereby, as well. Every event is
> > > BOTH cause and effect, excepting a first cause and last effect. We
> > > don't know, for sure, what the former was, and I'm sure we' can't
> > > possibly note the latter, as no effects can occur after the last one.
>
> > This is simply wrong headed. Things change and therefore they evolve.
> > Evolution is a term we apply to this concept. It is not and cannot be
> > a cause of change. Evolution is the result of change. If an elephant
> > evolves big ears which enable it to cool its blood, you cannot say
> > that this will further its survivability when the future is unknown to
> > it and unknown to "evolution". Evolution is not a thing that can
> > respond, it is that response. This is basically what archytas was
> > batting on about when he claims that "survival of the fittest" is
> > misunderstood.
>
> > > > > > 3) Religion
>
> > > > > Or diversity of thought
>
> > > > And that too.
>
> > > > > > 4) Cancer.
>
> > > > > or change over time
>
> > > > I think we dealt with evolution.
>
> > > > > > 5) The existence of Jade Goody
>
> > > > > or diversity within a species
>
> > > > Yep, drongos.
>
> > > LOL!!
>
> > > > > > 6) ad infinitem....
>
> > > > > or any number of thoughtless (that is, not well thought-out) cop-outs.
>
> > > > I could go on, but i'm still waiting for some evidence of a plan to
> > > > consider.
>
> > > There's plenty of things to consider as evidence; the problem is that,
> > > exactly, NONE of them are conclusive.
>
> > Point to one!
>
> > > > > > Okham's razor is good enough for most things, this included.
>
> > > > > > If you want to argue for a plan then go ahead, but I reject the plan
> > > > > > idea for the same set of reasons that I reject astrology.
>
> > > > > Funny, I'd have thought the existence of Cancer (the constellation)
> > > > > would be evidence FOR astrology.
>
> > > > It was not that sort that I had in mind. The constellation does not
> > > > exist. It is nothing more than a pattern of stars that is observable
> > > > from earth. If you were to travel away from earth it disappears, just
> > > > like other human delusions and illusions.
>
> > > Absolutely! You wouldn't have to travel all that far to see
> > > changes in constellations formed by nearby clusters like Orion or Ursa
> > > Major. It's even difficult to call them patterns without also being
> > > well-versed in Earth-based lifeforms and mythology.
>
> > Humans are obsessed with pattern recognition. This is both a bane and
> > a benefit.
>
> > > > > But seriously, none of those reasons
> > > > > point towards 'no plan' any more than they, of necessity, pont to a
> > > > > plan.
>
> > > > Of course they do. In the same way that crime point to inadequate
> > > > policing, or death point to a lack of breathing.
>
> > > Or that criminals always start off drinking milk? I always liked that
> > > as an example of both bad logic and how statistics can be misleading.
>
> > Are you not shooting yourself in the foot? Nice example by the way:
> > ban milk!
>
> > > > In the total absence of evidence for a thing, it is futile and
> > > > childlike to believe that such things as fairies exist. But then all
> > > > YOU have to do is believe in them and Tinkerbell is saved!
>
> > > As I said, there's plenty of things that one could consider as
> > > evidence for either side of the argument; it's just that none of them
> > > are conclusive, so we still have to believe irrespective of any
> > > considerable evidence.
>
> > And as I have requested, name one!
>
> > > > There is still no conclusive evidence for either argument. And
>
> > > > > I've seen depiction of Willian of Ockham with a beard, so not even HE
> > > > > used his razor all the time. ;-)
>
> > > > My radiotherapy treatment on my neck means that I only have to use my
> > > > razor 50% as much as I used to - at least it has done some good!
>
> > > Well, let's hope it does the trick. All the best for the New Year,
> > > Chaz. You could use a decent break!
>
> > We are trying to decide on Egypt or somewhere more salubrious. What I
> > really need is a break from think about cancer and relating it to
> > every minor symptom I have. It's a time wasting bastard!!
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