If we discover the non-particles we will no doubt see a great deal more of the "plan" of matter. We do not talk of evolution with any such precision and can thus know nothing of its plan until we know more of it. I have arranged for Chaz to be kept out of Egypt for a while as I make my first visits to Cairo soon (not really Old chap - ice cold in Alex and all that!).
On 31 Dec 2008, 23:35, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > On Dec 31, 7:56 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Egypt is a nice peaceful area to forget about minor symptoms, true. > > But I'm a bit embarassed by my American passport, erhghg! > Have a good new year! > > > > > > > On 31 Dez., 15:43, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Dec 31, 2:22 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On 31 Dec, 13:01, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On Dec 31, 11:48 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On 30 Dec, 17:45, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Evidence for a plan: none. > > > > > > > Evidence against a plan: > > > > > > > 1) The appendix > > > > > > > 2) other vestigial organs. > > > > > > > Why do you think that Evolution couldn't be a part of a plan? > > > > > > Easy, evolution is an effect, not a cause. > > > > > In a cause-and-effect world, it has to be one or the other. In > > > > reality, though, every change that is effected through evolution, > > > > allows for new effects to be caused thereby, as well. Every event is > > > > BOTH cause and effect, excepting a first cause and last effect. We > > > > don't know, for sure, what the former was, and I'm sure we' can't > > > > possibly note the latter, as no effects can occur after the last one. > > > > This is simply wrong headed. Things change and therefore they evolve. > > > Evolution is a term we apply to this concept. It is not and cannot be > > > a cause of change. Evolution is the result of change. If an elephant > > > evolves big ears which enable it to cool its blood, you cannot say > > > that this will further its survivability when the future is unknown to > > > it and unknown to "evolution". Evolution is not a thing that can > > > respond, it is that response. This is basically what archytas was > > > batting on about when he claims that "survival of the fittest" is > > > misunderstood. > > > > > > > > 3) Religion > > > > > > > Or diversity of thought > > > > > > And that too. > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer. > > > > > > > or change over time > > > > > > I think we dealt with evolution. > > > > > > > > 5) The existence of Jade Goody > > > > > > > or diversity within a species > > > > > > Yep, drongos. > > > > > LOL!! > > > > > > > > 6) ad infinitem.... > > > > > > > or any number of thoughtless (that is, not well thought-out) > > > > > > cop-outs. > > > > > > I could go on, but i'm still waiting for some evidence of a plan to > > > > > consider. > > > > > There's plenty of things to consider as evidence; the problem is that, > > > > exactly, NONE of them are conclusive. > > > > Point to one! > > > > > > > > Okham's razor is good enough for most things, this included. > > > > > > > > If you want to argue for a plan then go ahead, but I reject the > > > > > > > plan > > > > > > > idea for the same set of reasons that I reject astrology. > > > > > > > Funny, I'd have thought the existence of Cancer (the > > > > > > constellation) > > > > > > would be evidence FOR astrology. > > > > > > It was not that sort that I had in mind. The constellation does not > > > > > exist. It is nothing more than a pattern of stars that is observable > > > > > from earth. If you were to travel away from earth it disappears, just > > > > > like other human delusions and illusions. > > > > > Absolutely! You wouldn't have to travel all that far to see > > > > changes in constellations formed by nearby clusters like Orion or Ursa > > > > Major. It's even difficult to call them patterns without also being > > > > well-versed in Earth-based lifeforms and mythology. > > > > Humans are obsessed with pattern recognition. This is both a bane and > > > a benefit. > > > > > > > But seriously, none of those reasons > > > > > > point towards 'no plan' any more than they, of necessity, pont to a > > > > > > plan. > > > > > > Of course they do. In the same way that crime point to inadequate > > > > > policing, or death point to a lack of breathing. > > > > > Or that criminals always start off drinking milk? I always liked that > > > > as an example of both bad logic and how statistics can be misleading. > > > > Are you not shooting yourself in the foot? Nice example by the way: > > > ban milk! > > > > > > In the total absence of evidence for a thing, it is futile and > > > > > childlike to believe that such things as fairies exist. But then all > > > > > YOU have to do is believe in them and Tinkerbell is saved! > > > > > As I said, there's plenty of things that one could consider as > > > > evidence for either side of the argument; it's just that none of them > > > > are conclusive, so we still have to believe irrespective of any > > > > considerable evidence. > > > > And as I have requested, name one! > > > > > > There is still no conclusive evidence for either argument. And > > > > > > > I've seen depiction of Willian of Ockham with a beard, so not even > > > > > > HE > > > > > > used his razor all the time. ;-) > > > > > > My radiotherapy treatment on my neck means that I only have to use my > > > > > razor 50% as much as I used to - at least it has done some good! > > > > > Well, let's hope it does the trick. All the best for the New Year, > > > > Chaz. You could use a decent break! > > > > We are trying to decide on Egypt or somewhere more salubrious. What I > > > really need is a break from think about cancer and relating it to > > > every minor symptom I have. It's a time wasting bastard!!- Hide quoted > > > text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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