On Jan 8, 8:53 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]>
wrote:
> "your ant-science rant"
>
> not sure why you see it like this, Chaz,
Simply because that is exactly how you came across. Maybe you should
pick up on some of the points I made about why people actually NEED
the drugs they use.
unless you are looking for
> something to rail against. I'm all for science, and have stated here
> that I see it as a natural expression of our self image, collective
> and individual.
>
> I said "IF we are fortunate enough to live in a society that is
> relatively free of toxins", this does not mean that I think the world
> is toxin free. I am wondering if you purposely misconstrue my
> statements, or if in your haste to argue, just don't understand them.
> My point was, that if we are lucky enough to live in an area that is
> relatively free of toxins, war, disease etc...or life span increases.
I am saying that the modern world is NOT relatively free of toxins but
has bold new and more dangerous ones than ever existed in the past.
But despite that longevity is massively increased.
>
> "And yet ALL the archaeological evidence tells us that this was simply
> not so. I am certain this statement is blanket,
Perhaps you would trust me on this has I spend 6 years of my life
studying archaeology.
but haven't the time
> or inclination to do the research to dispute. I think that if you
> understood my statements, you might see that we are saying much the
> same thing without the generalizations.
I think not.
>
> "Indeed such as radiotherapy and chemotherapy. BUT targeting the
> specific DNA of a cancer cell would improve this problem." I never
> mentioned these, and my point was that here in the US anyway, pills
> are overly prescribed and medical testing is way overdone. What has
> this to do with cancer therapy?
This is what is called keeping to the thread. The thread that archytas
started on DNA and its possible application to medicine.
The US suffers from an insurance based health system which trends to
over treat. Doctors over treat for 3 basic reasons; they get more
work; the insurance provides a blank cheque and the more they spend
the more money giros through the system; finally they over treat
because because Americans are hopelessly litigious and doctors cover
every possibility for fear of being sued.
This is why America achieves far less in terms of the general health
of the citizenry as the majority do not get sufficient medical care,
whereas in the UK where resources are rationed by being free, there is
far more pressure to provide cost effective though minimal care.
I don't live there
>
> On Jan 8, 12:34 pm, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 8, 4:22 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > So that's where you got your 99% from, chaz,
> > > geez:http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-38619-2.html#backToArti...
>
> > No - but thanks for the link.
> > I get my 99% from my studies in archaeology.
>
> > > On 8 Jan., 16:44, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > 99% of human history ... who or what accounts for the mentioned gap?
> > > > Molly's super-designer?
>
> > > > On 8 Jan., 12:45, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jan 7, 9:29 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > For the cow's puke sake, chazwin, please give a scientifically
> > > > > > correct
> > > > > > definition of "natural environment", say, in contrast to an
> > > > > > unnatural
> > > > > > environment. Life expectancy figures will be our next topic then.
>
> > > > > I was refering to a time, 99% of human history, when humans were
> > > > > hunting and gathering, and depended on the vicissitudes of the natural
> > > > > environment.
> > > > > I thought that was quite obvious.
>
> > > > > > On 7 Jan., 20:22, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > This seems to me to be the typical anti-science model that is
> > > > > > > pervading our "alternative" consciousness. It is unfortunate and
> > > > > > > dangerous as most proponents choose to ignore the massive advances
> > > > > > > that have been made and would throw the baby out with the
> > > > > > > bath-water.
> > > > > > > This has led to an increase in some diseases that were sorted
> > > > > > > because
> > > > > > > people have been failing to participate in inoculation programmes.
>
> > > > > > > On Jan 7, 2:39 pm, Molly Brogan
> > > > > > > <[email protected]>
> > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > I think this is just a longer extension of the old, broken
> > > > > > > > medical
> > > > > > > > model - we have to "do" something (take something, manipulate
> > > > > > > > something, remove something, add a device to the body) every
> > > > > > > > time we
> > > > > > > > are uncomfortable with the way it is performing. The body heals
> > > > > > > > itself naturally and often has what is sometimes referred to as
> > > > > > > > "healing crisis" which can appear to be "illness" but is,
> > > > > > > > instead, the
> > > > > > > > natural function of the bodies adaptation and change function.
> > > > > > > > By
> > > > > > > > traumatizing the body with a medical interruption to this
> > > > > > > > process
> > > > > > > > instead of allowing the body its natural healing cycles, we
> > > > > > > > delay or
> > > > > > > > destroy the healing. I am not talking about mending a broken
> > > > > > > > bone or
> > > > > > > > life saving measures (although some of what is considered life
> > > > > > > > saving
> > > > > > > > I find questionable.) Take the bacterial strep pneumonia, a
> > > > > > > > bacteria
> > > > > > > > found everywhere that lives dormant in everyone. Occasionally,
> > > > > > > > and we
> > > > > > > > don't know why, it takes over the body and in a very short time
> > > > > > > > can be
> > > > > > > > fatal. Yet we live peacefully with it in most cases.
>
> > > > > > > > I don't think we understand enough about the true nature of
> > > > > > > > illness to
> > > > > > > > start changing our DNA to stop it. Our current model of illness
> > > > > > > > intervention (pharmaceuticals and surgeries) has prolonged life
> > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > the quality of that life is questionable and it is highly
> > > > > > > > doubtful
> > > > > > > > that it makes us any healthier overall. In fact, quite the
> > > > > > > > opposite.
> > > > > > > > The healthiest people I know are the ones that take no pills on
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > daily basis. The unhealthiest are the ones (and there are
> > > > > > > > MANY) that
> > > > > > > > take handfuls each day.
>
> > > > > > > You are mistaking cause and effect. Unhealthy people need the
> > > > > > > pills
> > > > > > > because they are unhealthy. Old people get to a stage when pills
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > what keep them going. When I say old I mean 40+. Life expectancy
> > > > > > > has
> > > > > > > massively increased with the advent of modern medicine.
> > > > > > > I am now 48.
> > > > > > > I get gout (hereditry), for which I can choose to take
> > > > > > > allapurinol OR,
> > > > > > > my choice, avoid protien rich food. I have managed to avoid the
> > > > > > > drug
> > > > > > > by taking care of my diet. But however careful I am the number of
> > > > > > > attacks is getting more frequent.
> > > > > > > I also have a gall stone. To avoid liver pain I have to keep my
> > > > > > > fat
> > > > > > > intake to a minimum. This I do with some success.
> > > > > > > I also have acid reflux. This is caused by a diet with too much
> > > > > > > carbohydrate.
> > > > > > > I think you can see where this is going.
> > > > > > > I can't survive on boiled cabbage and lettuce. So I treat the acid
> > > > > > > with Lansoprazole and seem to be doing okay.
> > > > > > > Getting cancer fucked up this carefully conceived and balanced
> > > > > > > strategy.
>
> > > > > > > Currently, our medical model catches people
>
> > > > > > > > as soon as they begin to use the system - antibiotics to treat
> > > > > > > > colds,
> > > > > > > > if the lungs are wheezing, prescribe an inhaler,
>
> > > > > > > As there is no other alternative to Asthma, I think the inhaler
> > > > > > > route
> > > > > > > is great. I have one at hand at all times.
>
> > > > > > > a mild heart
>
> > > > > > > > palpitation, heart medication, anxiety, anti anxiety pills...
> > > > > > > > on and
> > > > > > > > on until the body is completely out of balance and not able to
> > > > > > > > self
> > > > > > > > regulate.
>
> > > > > > > Self regulation is a myth. Before modern medicine people would
> > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > bloody die of the most simple thing. Evolution has not equipped us
> > > > > > > well enough. In a natural environment child mortality is massive,
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > longevity is much shorter.
> > > > > > > In H/g societies during the Palaeolithic life expectancy was
> > > > > > > around 40
> > > > > > > years.
>
> > > > > > > > Our DNA has a natural evolution of change that allows our
> > > > > > > > conscious
> > > > > > > > evolution. Because we have the science to manipulate it
> > > > > > > > doesn't mean
> > > > > > > > it is always beneficial for us to do so.
>
> > > > > > > But it is mostly.
>
> > > > > > > > On Jan 6, 11:36 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > We've known for a long time that our antibody-forming system
> > > > > > > > > adapts
> > > > > > > > > itself to every microbe we encounter. What we didn't
> > > > > > > > > understand fully
> > > > > > > > > is exactly how this happens. Now that we know, we can begin
> > > > > > > > > to find
> > > > > > > > > ways to manipulate this process so illnesses can be prevented
> > > > > > > > > or made
> > > > > > > > > significantly less dangerous.
>
> > > > > > > > > When the body encounters a foreign invader, like a virus or
> > > > > > > > > bacterium,
> > > > > > > > > it immediately begins to find a way to neutralize it by means
> > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > cellular or antibody-mediated defenses. Part of the process
> > > > > > > > > involves
> > > > > > > > > tailoring the genes that code for antibodies to specific
> > > > > > > > > viruses or
> > > > > > > > > bacteria. Researchers have known that this involves two types
> > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > genetic manipulation. One type changes a single gene at a
> > > > > > > > > time, and
> > > > > > > > > the other type changes multiple genes at the same time.
> > > > > > > > > Multiple
> > > > > > > > > genes can be modified simultaneously to make the
> > > > > > > > > "evolutionary leap"
> > > > > > > > > necessary to stave off infection. You treat DNA responsible
> > > > > > > > > for making
> > > > > > > > > antibody molecules with an enzyme, called activation-induced
> > > > > > > > > deaminase, while the DNA copies RNA polymerase. Like a
> > > > > > > > > scanner, RNA
> > > > > > > > > polymerase moves across the DNA to copy it. When this
> > > > > > > > > scanning process
> > > > > > > > > moves smoothly, there were either single mutations or no
> > > > > > > > > mutations.
> > > > > > > > > We can now stall the RNA polymerase (under certain
> > > > > > > > > conditions) as it
> > > > > > > > > "scans", causing cluster mutations in the DNA, adapting our
> > > > > > > > > antibodies for a rapid and effective response to a new
> > > > > > > > > microbial
> > > > > > > > > invader. Germs are mutating all over the place - we can now
> > > > > > > > > "plan"
> > > > > > > > > mutations of our own to save us as global warming makes
> > > > > > > > > infectious
> > > > > > > > > diseases one the biggest threats to human survival.
> > > > > > > > > Personally, I
> > > > > > > > > would rather leap into a new form of existence much more
> > > > > > > > > sensible than
> > > > > > > > > the human one, No work seems to being done on this.
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