I've wondered for a long time just what tax is. I got nearly £2K in bank charges back last year and I dread to think how much I've paid to financial services people over the years for utterly routine work. I fix my own car, yet even though I teach finance I have to let others do this work for me (they have less skill than any mechanic). I pay taxes yet the services I get are often so bad it's hard to understand how they get delivered the way they are. I have no interest at all in fashion and would like to buy my clothes from manufacturers by ordering in advance - thus avoiding 'retail tax' - and potentially putting an end to sweat shops.
On 27 Feb, 04:34, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > “…Nobody family making less then 50 grand really pays federal taxes > anyway…” – DJ > > It is difficult to know what exactly is meant here…and, I can say that > a family of two, making $50,000 or less pays about 1/3rd of their > income in taxes of different types, NOT including any of the sales > taxes, the tax on oil etc. > > The vast majority of US corporations pay no taxes today. This is a big > change. > > One of my many functions in life has been that of accounting…I also > have done some computer program programming. Over the last few decades > I have watched the result of tax code changes on the poor. I thought I > had seen everything until a few years ago when a tax on unemployment > checks was instituted. There are numerous publications, books, classes > etc. on this very topic. The facts seem to show an enormous shift over > the last handfull of decades of the tax burden from the rich to the > poor, opinions aside. > > On Feb 26, 8:03 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Government as it exists as opposed to it's intended purpose. THIS > > government, THIS administration(and the last one) and more > > specifically THIS Congress are making a bad situation worse. I am not > > a tax scholar and it doesn't take one to see what we have doesn't > > work. Nobody family making less then 50 grand really pays federal > > taxes anyway. I don't suggest this change. I'm not for yanking food > > out of mouths or roofs off of heads. I would, however, like to see > > the loop-holes and deductions and credits disappear. Simplify. KISS. > > > I'll check up on what Jr. had to say, I'm curious. I think he would > > blanch at what is going on right now if he were still alive. > > > "You get the government you deserve." What a reflection on the > > electorate, eh? > > > dj > > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 8:56 PM, ornamentalmind > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > “Government is the problem …” – DJ > > > “…How about a flat tax on all income and consumption?…” – DJ > > > > A child of the Reagan era perhaps? Clearly one who thinks that > > > government is the problem has little to no faith in the Constitution. > > > “We the people, in order to form a more perfect union…”. We are the > > > government. We elect representatives too. They reflect the people who > > > elect them sometimes. > > > > About the flat tax…I used to think it would be a great change. On the > > > surface, it makes sense in many ways. However, IF explored more fully, > > > it becomes abundantly clear that a flat tax is regressive, taking more > > > from those who can’t afford it than from those who can. Even Bill > > > Buckley, in a debate I watched a few decades ago felt strongly about > > > this. So, it isn’t something based on conservative/liberal ideology. > > > > On Feb 26, 2:42 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Government is the problem because they manage the tax code. It's so > > >> confusing the guy hired to be in charge of it can't figure out how to > > >> pay his taxes. Let's make it easy. How about a flat tax on all > > >> income and consumption? Without the loopholes that are so abundant > > >> for the extremely wealthy to avoid taxes. I love the idea. Of > > >> course, this would eliminate Congress's major power of > > >> reward/punishment ability so it will never happen. The bribes...oops, > > >> I mean campaign donations... would dry up. > > > >> dj > > > >> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 12:45 PM, ornamentalmind > > > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > Yes, it is fran. Today many who pay a lot in taxes, not percentage > > >> > wise, but in amount based on a large income don't mind at all. Only a > > >> > select vocal few are heard in the media to the point that such > > >> > propaganda about the government being the problem (Ronnie)....has > > >> > become a common myth. I've said it many times...when I was a kid, my > > >> > father paid 91% of his income in taxes...and, we did VERY well....no > > >> > complaints. Today, in most cases, the poor pay a higher percentage of > > >> > their income in taxes than the rich. Robin Hood aside, this is absurd > > >> > no matter the argument. > > > >> > On Feb 25, 9:28 am, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> Don's - of course - purely rhetorical suggestion about the non-payment > > >> >> of taxes seems to echo a certain US American mythology that there's > > >> >> something un-american about paying taxes, as well as there being > > >> >> something inherently suspect about (central) government. > > > >> >> Nobody likes paying taxes and very few would even consider paying more > > >> >> than they absolutely have to - including me. But I must also > > >> >> acknowledge that taxation is the basic method for paying for things > > >> >> which a country/community/society feels need to be organised > > >> >> collectively. It belongs to the basic ideas of self-definition of a > > >> >> country/community/society to decide what these collective tasks are > > >> >> and how far they should be funded by the common purse. > > > >> >> Even as a non-US American, I seem to remember that the rallying cry > > >> >> for the American Revolution was not, "No taxation," but rather "No > > >> >> taxation without representation." The USA established itself on this > > >> >> basis as a representative democracy. Everything else flows from that. > > >> >> To use the language of 18th Century political thinkers, that's the > > >> >> basic social contract and there's no way to opt out of it and back to > > >> >> the "state of nature." As far as I recall, the US fought a rather > > >> >> spectacular civil war about that very issue. Those who wanted the > > >> >> right to opt out lost. > > > >> >> None of this, of course, addresses problems of injustice within > > >> >> particular taxation systems. But, strictly seen, that's what has to be > > >> >> sorted out within the representative democracy framework. Or, if your > > >> >> conscientious objections lead you to refuse, then you must accept the > > >> >> consequences. In my opinion, that's the kind of bravery Orn is talking > > >> >> about. > > > >> >> Francis > > > >> >> On 25 Feb., 16:50, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> > First, since the US stopped being serious about tariffs, taxes are > > >> >> > needed for the common good. The IRS has been under-funded for years > > >> >> > and the result(s) is they only go after those accounts that will be > > >> >> > easy to collect. read: the accounts of the non-powerful/non-rich. > > >> >> > Our founding fathers not only decided not to continue to pay their > > >> >> > taxes, but they took action that would have resulted in their death > > >> >> > if > > >> >> > caught. Almost to a man, they died in poverty. Few today are as > > >> >> > brave. > > > >> >> > On Feb 24, 6:41 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> > > Sure, the Duty of Civil Disobedience, good ole Thoreau. > > >> >> > > Truthfully, > > >> >> > > they already have the tax money, now it's people filing returns > > >> >> > > hoping > > >> >> > > to get something back from the forced prepay plan. You can't get > > >> >> > > a > > >> >> > > job at any corporation if you tell them you will pay your own > > >> >> > > taxes > > >> >> > > from a 1099. The IRS spends hundreds of thousands on paper alone > > >> >> > > plus > > >> >> > > millions on salaried collectors and yes men. > > > >> >> > > On Feb 24, 7:05 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> > > > I'm against rioting in the streets but I'm all for civil > > >> >> > > > disobedience. > > >> >> > > > If we en mass refused to pay federal taxes for last year I > > >> >> > > > think we > > >> >> > > > might get Washington's attention. Start simply by applying for > > >> >> > > > extensions and taking every legal route to delay paying right > > >> >> > > > up until > > >> >> > > > the court order to pay and then just quietly say "No." > > > >> >> > > > Whatta ya say gang? Who's with me? > > > >> >> > > > dj > > > >> >> > > > Disclaimer: Above suggestion is purely rhetorical and I have no > > >> >> > > > intention of disobeying the law or avoiding my fiscal > > >> >> > > > obligation to my > > >> >> > > > country. Nor am I aware of any group planning to do so. All > > >> >> > > > Hail > > >> >> > > > Obama! His truth is shining on. > > > >> >> > > > On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 6:43 PM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> > > >> >> > > > wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > That's what we need to happen gruff, then the world will > > >> >> > > > > realize that > > >> >> > > > > we never really did need the bashstards (scot accent) and > > >> >> > > > > that we can > > >> >> > > > > "Grow Food" without them. Banks are a system for the wealthy > > >> >> > > > > and that > > >> >> > > > > is why they are giving billions of dollars to the > > >> >> > > > > unscrupulous creeps > > >> >> > > > > that are throwing people out on the street instead of giving > > >> >> > > > > the money > > >> >> > > > > to the people who really need it. It's protectionism for > > >> >> > > > > society's > > >> >> > > > > elite. Are the banks lowering interest rates and > > >> >> > > > > refinancing? NO!! > > >> >> > > > > Illinois based Northern Trust just took $1.6 Billion dollars > > >> >> > > > > from the > > >> >> > > > > tax payers and went on a vacation jaunt in Southern > > >> >> > > > > California and > > >> >> > > > > hired the Band Chicago for $100,000, this all with Tax Payer > > >> >> > > > > Money. > > >> >> > > > > These people are spitting on us. Tax breaks that are going > > >> >> > > > > to give a > > >> >> > > > > family an extra $65 a month is pathetic. $600 to $1200 per > > >> >> > > > > family > > >> >> > > > > stimulus money is pathetic. They should give everyone > > >> >> > > > > $100,000 to > > >> >> > > > > stimulate the economy, but you see it's the economy of the > > >> >> > > > > rich that > > >> >> > > > > they want to stimulate. There will be rioting in the streets > > >> >> > > > > even if > > >> >> > > > > the banks don't collapse because people are starting to > > >> >> > > > > realize what > > >> >> > > > > Schleps they are and how tied into the economic Slavery > > >> >> > > > > program they > > >> >> > > > > are. Why should I give money to a bank that is throwing my > > >> >> > > > > friend out > > >> >> > > > > on the street when I could give the money to my friend > > >> >> > > > > instead? To > > >> >> > > > > Hell with the > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
