typo, sorry. What I meant was that most families making less then 50 grand a year do not pay federal income taxes. I don't include ss tax or any other just federal income. With the standard deduction plus any credits for children, my statement is generally correct I believe. As an accountant that presumably has done many-a-return I defer to your expertise and experience. Mine is based on my own experience of doing just my own returns.
Corporations don't pay taxes; people pay taxes. When taxes are raised on corporations we will see inflation rise accordingly. As always, the middle-class will foot the bill. Obama's claim that taxing the rich will leave us untouched is a flat out lie. I'm sure he knows it. Most of my family in rural Alabama are poor. In every case their continued state of poverty is due to a lack of interest in learning a marketable skill or any effort to improve what skills they do have. They get their welfare money and perform occasional under-the-table work(tax free) and maybe deal some drugs for extra money. Prison is a revolving door for some of these people because they make no attempt to reform themselves. Why should they? Going to jail relieves them of the responsibility of taking care of their family. The state sends them a stipend. Why should they worry about improving when the Nanny state provides them with everything they need? Believe me, my dad used to try to help some of these people and wound up getting burned every single time. You learn not to try to help. You visit, you hang out, smoke some, drink some beers and go hunting maybe. What you don't do is give them money. Ever. It's the worst thing you can do. The ones that succeed(like my dad) do it with their own hard work and personal sacrifice. dj On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 10:34 PM, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > “…Nobody family making less then 50 grand really pays federal taxes > anyway…” – DJ > > It is difficult to know what exactly is meant here…and, I can say that > a family of two, making $50,000 or less pays about 1/3rd of their > income in taxes of different types, NOT including any of the sales > taxes, the tax on oil etc. > > The vast majority of US corporations pay no taxes today. This is a big > change. > > One of my many functions in life has been that of accounting…I also > have done some computer program programming. Over the last few decades > I have watched the result of tax code changes on the poor. I thought I > had seen everything until a few years ago when a tax on unemployment > checks was instituted. There are numerous publications, books, classes > etc. on this very topic. The facts seem to show an enormous shift over > the last handfull of decades of the tax burden from the rich to the > poor, opinions aside. > > > > On Feb 26, 8:03 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: >> Government as it exists as opposed to it's intended purpose. THIS >> government, THIS administration(and the last one) and more >> specifically THIS Congress are making a bad situation worse. I am not >> a tax scholar and it doesn't take one to see what we have doesn't >> work. Nobody family making less then 50 grand really pays federal >> taxes anyway. I don't suggest this change. I'm not for yanking food >> out of mouths or roofs off of heads. I would, however, like to see >> the loop-holes and deductions and credits disappear. Simplify. KISS. >> >> I'll check up on what Jr. had to say, I'm curious. I think he would >> blanch at what is going on right now if he were still alive. >> >> "You get the government you deserve." What a reflection on the electorate, >> eh? >> >> dj >> >> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 8:56 PM, ornamentalmind >> >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > “Government is the problem …” – DJ >> > “…How about a flat tax on all income and consumption?…” – DJ >> >> > A child of the Reagan era perhaps? Clearly one who thinks that >> > government is the problem has little to no faith in the Constitution. >> > “We the people, in order to form a more perfect union…”. We are the >> > government. We elect representatives too. They reflect the people who >> > elect them sometimes. >> >> > About the flat tax…I used to think it would be a great change. On the >> > surface, it makes sense in many ways. However, IF explored more fully, >> > it becomes abundantly clear that a flat tax is regressive, taking more >> > from those who can’t afford it than from those who can. Even Bill >> > Buckley, in a debate I watched a few decades ago felt strongly about >> > this. So, it isn’t something based on conservative/liberal ideology. >> >> > On Feb 26, 2:42 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Government is the problem because they manage the tax code. It's so >> >> confusing the guy hired to be in charge of it can't figure out how to >> >> pay his taxes. Let's make it easy. How about a flat tax on all >> >> income and consumption? Without the loopholes that are so abundant >> >> for the extremely wealthy to avoid taxes. I love the idea. Of >> >> course, this would eliminate Congress's major power of >> >> reward/punishment ability so it will never happen. The bribes...oops, >> >> I mean campaign donations... would dry up. >> >> >> dj >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 12:45 PM, ornamentalmind >> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > Yes, it is fran. Today many who pay a lot in taxes, not percentage >> >> > wise, but in amount based on a large income don't mind at all. Only a >> >> > select vocal few are heard in the media to the point that such >> >> > propaganda about the government being the problem (Ronnie)....has >> >> > become a common myth. I've said it many times...when I was a kid, my >> >> > father paid 91% of his income in taxes...and, we did VERY well....no >> >> > complaints. Today, in most cases, the poor pay a higher percentage of >> >> > their income in taxes than the rich. Robin Hood aside, this is absurd >> >> > no matter the argument. >> >> >> > On Feb 25, 9:28 am, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> Don's - of course - purely rhetorical suggestion about the non-payment >> >> >> of taxes seems to echo a certain US American mythology that there's >> >> >> something un-american about paying taxes, as well as there being >> >> >> something inherently suspect about (central) government. >> >> >> >> Nobody likes paying taxes and very few would even consider paying more >> >> >> than they absolutely have to - including me. But I must also >> >> >> acknowledge that taxation is the basic method for paying for things >> >> >> which a country/community/society feels need to be organised >> >> >> collectively. It belongs to the basic ideas of self-definition of a >> >> >> country/community/society to decide what these collective tasks are >> >> >> and how far they should be funded by the common purse. >> >> >> >> Even as a non-US American, I seem to remember that the rallying cry >> >> >> for the American Revolution was not, "No taxation," but rather "No >> >> >> taxation without representation." The USA established itself on this >> >> >> basis as a representative democracy. Everything else flows from that. >> >> >> To use the language of 18th Century political thinkers, that's the >> >> >> basic social contract and there's no way to opt out of it and back to >> >> >> the "state of nature." As far as I recall, the US fought a rather >> >> >> spectacular civil war about that very issue. Those who wanted the >> >> >> right to opt out lost. >> >> >> >> None of this, of course, addresses problems of injustice within >> >> >> particular taxation systems. But, strictly seen, that's what has to be >> >> >> sorted out within the representative democracy framework. Or, if your >> >> >> conscientious objections lead you to refuse, then you must accept the >> >> >> consequences. In my opinion, that's the kind of bravery Orn is talking >> >> >> about. >> >> >> >> Francis >> >> >> >> On 25 Feb., 16:50, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> > First, since the US stopped being serious about tariffs, taxes are >> >> >> > needed for the common good. The IRS has been under-funded for years >> >> >> > and the result(s) is they only go after those accounts that will be >> >> >> > easy to collect. read: the accounts of the non-powerful/non-rich. >> >> >> > Our founding fathers not only decided not to continue to pay their >> >> >> > taxes, but they took action that would have resulted in their death >> >> >> > if >> >> >> > caught. Almost to a man, they died in poverty. Few today are as >> >> >> > brave. >> >> >> >> > On Feb 24, 6:41 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> > > Sure, the Duty of Civil Disobedience, good ole Thoreau. Truthfully, >> >> >> > > they already have the tax money, now it's people filing returns >> >> >> > > hoping >> >> >> > > to get something back from the forced prepay plan. You can't get a >> >> >> > > job at any corporation if you tell them you will pay your own taxes >> >> >> > > from a 1099. The IRS spends hundreds of thousands on paper alone >> >> >> > > plus >> >> >> > > millions on salaried collectors and yes men. >> >> >> >> > > On Feb 24, 7:05 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> > > > I'm against rioting in the streets but I'm all for civil >> >> >> > > > disobedience. >> >> >> > > > If we en mass refused to pay federal taxes for last year I think >> >> >> > > > we >> >> >> > > > might get Washington's attention. Start simply by applying for >> >> >> > > > extensions and taking every legal route to delay paying right up >> >> >> > > > until >> >> >> > > > the court order to pay and then just quietly say "No." >> >> >> >> > > > Whatta ya say gang? Who's with me? >> >> >> >> > > > dj >> >> >> >> > > > Disclaimer: Above suggestion is purely rhetorical and I have no >> >> >> > > > intention of disobeying the law or avoiding my fiscal obligation >> >> >> > > > to my >> >> >> > > > country. Nor am I aware of any group planning to do so. All >> >> >> > > > Hail >> >> >> > > > Obama! His truth is shining on. >> >> >> >> > > > On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 6:43 PM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> >> >> >> > > > wrote: >> >> >> >> > > > > That's what we need to happen gruff, then the world will >> >> >> > > > > realize that >> >> >> > > > > we never really did need the bashstards (scot accent) and that >> >> >> > > > > we can >> >> >> > > > > "Grow Food" without them. Banks are a system for the wealthy >> >> >> > > > > and that >> >> >> > > > > is why they are giving billions of dollars to the unscrupulous >> >> >> > > > > creeps >> >> >> > > > > that are throwing people out on the street instead of giving >> >> >> > > > > the money >> >> >> > > > > to the people who really need it. It's protectionism for >> >> >> > > > > society's >> >> >> > > > > elite. Are the banks lowering interest rates and refinancing? >> >> >> > > > > NO!! >> >> >> > > > > Illinois based Northern Trust just took $1.6 Billion dollars >> >> >> > > > > from the >> >> >> > > > > tax payers and went on a vacation jaunt in Southern California >> >> >> > > > > and >> >> >> > > > > hired the Band Chicago for $100,000, this all with Tax Payer >> >> >> > > > > Money. >> >> >> > > > > These people are spitting on us. Tax breaks that are going to >> >> >> > > > > give a >> >> >> > > > > family an extra $65 a month is pathetic. $600 to $1200 per >> >> >> > > > > family >> >> >> > > > > stimulus money is pathetic. They should give everyone >> >> >> > > > > $100,000 to >> >> >> > > > > stimulate the economy, but you see it's the economy of the >> >> >> > > > > rich that >> >> >> > > > > they want to stimulate. There will be rioting in the streets >> >> >> > > > > even if >> >> >> > > > > the banks don't collapse because people are starting to >> >> >> > > > > realize what >> >> >> > > > > Schleps they are and how tied into the economic Slavery >> >> >> > > > > program they >> >> >> > > > > are. Why should I give money to a bank that is throwing my >> >> >> > > > > friend out >> >> >> > > > > on the street when I could give the money to my friend >> >> >> > > > > instead? To >> >> >> > > > > Hell with the Bashstards!! >> >> >> >> > > > > On Feb 23, 8:16 am, gruff <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > > > >> Banks, more than any other industry, can't be allowed to fail. >> >> >> > > > >> Financing and credit are so interwoven into the economies of >> >> >> > > > >> all >> >> >> > > > >> nations that should the banks fail the entire economy would go >> >> >> > > > >> bust. This may not be right but, as one talking head noted >> >> >> > > > >> yesterday on the tube, lending has almost become a utility >> >> >> > > > >> just like >> >> >> > > > >> power and water. If the banks are allowed to fail, I'm >> >> >> > > > >> afraid >> >> >> > > > >> society and civilization as we know it will also fail. Then >> >> >> > > > >> there >> >> >> > > > >> will be rioting in the streets, for certain. >> >> >> >> > > > >> However, I agree that since the top four or five percent of >> >> >> > > > >> the world >> >> >> > > > >> owns and controls forty or more percent of the wealth, they >> >> >> > > > >> should be >> >> >> > > > >> called to account and to help. >> >> >> >> > > > >> On Feb 17, 3:27 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> > > > >> > I see people who have paid taxes for years being thrown out >> >> >> > > > >> > on the >> >> >> > > > >> > street by banks who are foreclosing on their homes while >> >> >> > > > >> > tax payer >> >> >> > > > >> > money is being doled out in billions to >> >> ... >> >> read more »- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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