Wow, Gruff, don't I envy your unliable state of such delectable
freedoms !  Seriously.

On 2 Mar, 00:32, gruff <[email protected]> wrote:
> I may be the outlaw, outlier, oddball on this issue, but I've always
> regarded property as owning you rather than you owning property.  You
> never finish paying for it (assessments, property taxes, maintenance,
> etc.).  You have to pay fees and commissions to buy property and pay
> fees and commissions again when you sell it.  You have to protect it
> with homestead declarations and a plethora of insurance to cover all
> the possibilities that insurance does it's best to exempt itself from
> paying.  You can't pack up your property and move it to a new location
> if you get some lousy neighbors, and you're always subject to lawsuits
> and other claims from careless transgressors, trespassers and
> tradesmen.   Owning property has never struck me as such a good
> deal.
>
> I own my RV which, since it's got wheels, fulfills my primary
> consideration -- mobility.  I have no insurance on anything except for
> the absolute minimum required by law (liability only).  Of course I
> also have no responsibilities: no wife, no kids, no debt, no property,
> and no headaches.
>
> On Feb 26, 5:54 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Yes it is.  I rented for 13 years before I broke down and bought the
> > house.  In September of last hear; how's that for timing?  I do love
> > the house and I'm proud to own it.  If the day comes when I can't
> > afford it I will sell it before my lack of funds let the house get run
> > down.  I have too much respect for the house and my neighbors to let
> > that happen.
>
> > You know it just occurred to me the biggest social problem we have is
> > the lack of respect payed to one another.  I feel disrespected by my
> > elected reps. and at the same time frustrated with a lot of my fellow
> > citizen's apparent lack of respect for themselves.  What happened to
> > personal dignity?  It can't be given to you, it comes from within.
>
> > I'm sensing a new Tea Party folks.
>
> > dj
>
> > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 6:17 PM, ornamentalmind
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > "... Now our government is trying to keep deadbeats in houses they
> > > can't afford and shouldn't have gotten loans for in the first place.
> > > It's asinine." - DJ
>
> > > What is even more 'asinine' and is not being talked about at ALL in
> > > any media is that those of us who don't even own a house, whether we
> > > could afford one or not ...and rent or...whatever, live on the street,
> > > at parent's home etc. are among those who are PAYING the banks to help
> > > keep people in homes! It's not even asinine, it is criminal!
>
> > > On Feb 26, 2:42 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> Government is the problem because they manage the tax code.  It's so
> > >> confusing the guy hired to be in charge of it can't figure out how to
> > >> pay his taxes.  Let's make it easy.  How about a flat tax on all
> > >> income and consumption?  Without the loopholes that are so abundant
> > >> for the extremely wealthy to avoid taxes.  I love the idea.  Of
> > >> course, this would eliminate Congress's major power of
> > >> reward/punishment ability so it will never happen.  The bribes...oops,
> > >> I mean campaign donations... would dry up.
>
> > >> dj
>
> > >> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 12:45 PM, ornamentalmind
>
> > >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >> > Yes, it is fran. Today many who pay a lot in taxes, not percentage
> > >> > wise, but in amount based on a large income don't mind at all. Only a
> > >> > select vocal few are heard in the media to the point that such
> > >> > propaganda about the government being the problem (Ronnie)....has
> > >> > become a common myth. I've said it many times...when I was a kid, my
> > >> > father paid 91% of his income in taxes...and, we did VERY well....no
> > >> > complaints. Today, in most cases, the poor pay a higher percentage of
> > >> > their income in taxes than the rich. Robin Hood aside, this is absurd
> > >> > no matter the argument.
>
> > >> > On Feb 25, 9:28 am, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> >> Don's - of course - purely rhetorical suggestion about the non-payment
> > >> >> of taxes seems to echo a certain US American mythology that there's
> > >> >> something un-american about paying taxes, as well as there being
> > >> >> something inherently suspect about (central) government.
>
> > >> >> Nobody likes paying taxes and very few would even consider paying more
> > >> >> than they absolutely have to - including me. But I must also
> > >> >> acknowledge that taxation is the basic method for paying for things
> > >> >> which a country/community/society feels need to be organised
> > >> >> collectively. It belongs to the basic ideas of self-definition of a
> > >> >> country/community/society to decide what these collective tasks are
> > >> >> and how far they should be funded by the common purse.
>
> > >> >> Even as a non-US American, I seem to remember that the rallying cry
> > >> >> for the American Revolution was not, "No taxation," but rather "No
> > >> >> taxation without representation." The USA established itself on this
> > >> >> basis as a representative democracy. Everything else flows from that.
> > >> >> To use the language of 18th Century political thinkers, that's the
> > >> >> basic social contract and there's no way to opt out of it and back to
> > >> >> the "state of nature." As far as I recall, the US fought a rather
> > >> >> spectacular civil war about that very issue. Those who wanted the
> > >> >> right to opt out lost.
>
> > >> >> None of this, of course, addresses problems of injustice within
> > >> >> particular taxation systems. But, strictly seen, that's what has to be
> > >> >> sorted out within the representative democracy framework. Or, if your
> > >> >> conscientious objections lead you to refuse, then you must accept the
> > >> >> consequences. In my opinion, that's the kind of bravery Orn is talking
> > >> >> about.
>
> > >> >> Francis
>
> > >> >> On 25 Feb., 16:50, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >> >> > First, since the US stopped being serious about tariffs, taxes are
> > >> >> > needed for the common good. The IRS has been under-funded for years
> > >> >> > and the result(s) is they only go after those accounts that will be
> > >> >> > easy to collect. read: the accounts of the non-powerful/non-rich.
> > >> >> > Our founding fathers not only decided not to continue to pay their
> > >> >> > taxes, but they took action that would have resulted in their death 
> > >> >> > if
> > >> >> > caught. Almost to a man, they died in poverty. Few today are as 
> > >> >> > brave.
>
> > >> >> > On Feb 24, 6:41 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >> >> > > Sure, the Duty of Civil Disobedience, good ole Thoreau. 
> > >> >> > > Truthfully,
> > >> >> > > they already have the tax money, now it's people filing returns 
> > >> >> > > hoping
> > >> >> > > to get something back from the forced prepay plan.  You can't get 
> > >> >> > > a
> > >> >> > > job at any corporation if you tell them you will pay your own 
> > >> >> > > taxes
> > >> >> > > from a 1099.  The IRS spends hundreds of thousands on paper alone 
> > >> >> > > plus
> > >> >> > > millions on salaried collectors and yes men.
>
> > >> >> > > On Feb 24, 7:05 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >> >> > > > I'm against rioting in the streets but I'm all for civil 
> > >> >> > > > disobedience.
> > >> >> > > > If we en mass refused to pay federal taxes for last year I 
> > >> >> > > > think we
> > >> >> > > > might get Washington's attention.  Start simply by applying for
> > >> >> > > > extensions and taking every legal route to delay paying right 
> > >> >> > > > up until
> > >> >> > > > the court order to pay and then just quietly say "No."
>
> > >> >> > > > Whatta ya say gang?  Who's with me?
>
> > >> >> > > > dj
>
> > >> >> > > > Disclaimer:  Above suggestion is purely rhetorical and I have no
> > >> >> > > > intention of disobeying the law or avoiding my fiscal 
> > >> >> > > > obligation to my
> > >> >> > > > country.  Nor am I aware of any group planning to do so.  All 
> > >> >> > > > Hail
> > >> >> > > > Obama!  His truth is shining on.
>
> > >> >> > > > On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 6:43 PM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> 
> > >> >> > > > wrote:
>
> > >> >> > > > > That's what we need to happen gruff, then the world will 
> > >> >> > > > > realize that
> > >> >> > > > > we never really did need the bashstards (scot accent) and 
> > >> >> > > > > that we can
> > >> >> > > > > "Grow Food" without them.  Banks are a system for the wealthy 
> > >> >> > > > > and that
> > >> >> > > > > is why they are giving billions of dollars to the 
> > >> >> > > > > unscrupulous creeps
> > >> >> > > > > that are throwing people out on the street instead of giving 
> > >> >> > > > > the money
> > >> >> > > > > to the people who really need it.  It's protectionism for 
> > >> >> > > > > society's
> > >> >> > > > > elite.  Are the banks lowering interest rates and 
> > >> >> > > > > refinancing? NO!!
> > >> >> > > > > Illinois based Northern Trust just took $1.6 Billion dollars 
> > >> >> > > > > from the
> > >> >> > > > > tax payers and went on a vacation jaunt in Southern 
> > >> >> > > > > California and
> > >> >> > > > > hired the Band Chicago for $100,000, this all with Tax Payer 
> > >> >> > > > > Money.
> > >> >> > > > > These people are spitting on us.  Tax breaks that are going 
> > >> >> > > > > to give a
> > >> >> > > > > family an extra $65 a month is pathetic.  $600 to $1200 per 
> > >> >> > > > > family
> > >> >> > > > > stimulus money is pathetic.  They should give everyone  
> > >> >> > > > > $100,000 to
> > >> >> > > > > stimulate the economy, but you see it's the economy of the 
> > >> >> > > > > rich that
> > >> >> > > > > they want to stimulate.  There will be rioting in the streets 
> > >> >> > > > > even if
> > >> >> > > > > the banks don't collapse because people are starting to 
> > >> >> > > > > realize what
> > >> >> > > > > Schleps they are and how tied into the economic Slavery 
> > >> >> > > > > program they
> > >> >> > > > > are.  Why should I give money to a bank that is throwing my 
> > >> >> > > > > friend out
> > >> >> > > > > on the street when I could give the money to my friend 
> > >> >> > > > > instead?  To
> > >> >> > > > > Hell with the Bashstards!!
>
> > >> >> > > > > On Feb 23, 8:16 am, gruff <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> >> > > > >> Banks, more than any other industry, can't be allowed to 
> > >> >> > > > >> fail.
> > >> >> > > > >> Financing and credit are so interwoven into the economies of 
> > >> >> > > > >> all
> > >> >> > > > >> nations that should the banks fail
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
""Minds Eye"" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected]
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Reply via email to