Interesting word hypocrisy. In all organizations there is hypocrisy and including the US Government especially if you look back at the very top of the last administration, oh well now we only have to deal with the after effects of it.
Within both the roman and orthodox church the people in power are kind of stuck there and for the most part they are pretty ordinary and very intelligent men who's lives are controlled by others. That doesn't make them hypocritical it just makes them stuck. sometimes very lonely too. Most of them are very good people to be admired. I have been lucky to see thier good works that are hidden from most. I do know that if they can ever escape their prison they are great to have a cup of coffee with.. After all they have a moral and spiritual obligation to save the heretic.. Allan On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 12:28 PM, e_space <[email protected]> wrote: > > im happy with your success in this area and i dont put religion down. > i was referring to the heirarchy of the church. there is simply too > much hypocrisy at the top. your work is very important and, from my > perspective, this is where the beauty of church lies, with the people, > not those who live in mansions enforcing the laws as they see them. > keep up the good work! :-) > > On Apr 25, 2:14 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > You know e-space me and the catholic church have our differences, they > are > > theological and yes I am a heretic, When you talk about wealth, Francis > is > > right most of it is wealth you just can not dispose of most of it is > peoples > > gifts honoring God, one of the modern one a person needs to look at the > > Washington cathedral look who was hired to build it,, the unemployed > trained > > in the skills they needed to know and then given a job for the rest of > their > > life, Those were not people that were just out of work, they were the > > unemployable, > > I personally have been involved in projects trying to help the poor earn > a > > living in 3rd world and have lost a small fortune and still do. But poor > > people can feed their families with pride. But the greatest thing that > ever > > happened is when the letter came.. It read dear Allan We succeeded in > > finding a cure for leprosy thank you may God bless Fr. C > > > > Religion is not about wealth but learning to serve our fellow man. > > > > disagreements and heretic papers in hand I will stand shoulder to > shoulder > > with the RC or Orthodox Church > > > > Allan > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:28 PM, e_space <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > i bow to your intimate knowledge on this subject and i agree to > > > generalization. i guess i was just trying to make a point. im not sure > > > slopping thinking was involved, maybe less than stellar research. > > > thanks for the clarifications... > > > > > On Apr 24, 4:02 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 24 Apr., 12:15, e_space <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > analyzing religion from an heirarchy point of view, i see religious > > > > > leaders as quite evil. religion is often used to control people > > > > > through fear and intimidation, not love and guidance. the roman > > > > > catholic religion for example, is the richest 'corporation' in the > > > > > world, yet its converts are starving to death and dying of aids > > > > > because they cant use contraception. many of the priests are > > > > > pedeophiles who have been sheltered and moved around from one > church > > > > > to the other when scandals were about to break out. they have been > > > > > associated with the mafia and murder and will not let females be > > > > > priests. they live in mansions that are FAR beyond any dream home > you > > > > > and i would imagine, have michael angelo on the ceiling, walk > around > > > > > with massive crowns on their heads and gold jewelry that makes a > > > > > rappers bling look like a cracker jack toy. jesus supposedly said, > > > > > 'give up your riches and follow me'. i guess somewhere down the > road, > > > > > religious leaders sorta overlooked this admonition. i have nothing > > > > > against those who go to church, and if it brings them happiness, > > > > > great. just not my cup of tea... > > > > > > There is a great deal of truth in what you write here, e, but also > > > > large dollops of generalisation, inaccuracy and sloppy thinking > which, > > > > in my view, serve only to weaken your argument. > > > > > > Those who know me better here are well aware of my extremely critical > > > > position viz a viz the RC Church. Nonetheless, I feel I must clarify > > > > some of the points you allude to. > > > > > > Firstly, the "roman catholic religion" is not a "corporation" of any > > > > kind, but rather a designation for over a billion adherents world- > > > > wide, the vast majority of whom voluntarily associate themselves with > > > > this belief, which is internally organised, according to its own > > > > rules, as a "church". While you and I might regard the official RC > > > > position on contraception, population control and HIV-AIDS as > > > > extremely backward, irrational and regrettable, I must point out that > > > > there is no way the RC Church can force its adherents to follow its > > > > teachings, apart from the "moral" authority accorded to it by many of > > > > those adherents. > > > > > > The wealth of the RC Church is a difficult subject to discuss, as its > > > > assets are legally in the hands of thousands of distinct > organisations > > > > and groups, some of which are quite wealthy, some of which are very > > > > poor. The administrative centre of the Church, the Vatican City, is > an > > > > internationally recognised independent country, with its own laws, > > > > maintaining formal diplomatic contacts with most countries in the > > > > world. The present position of this entity is the result of 1700 > years > > > > of historical development. Much of its wealth is in the form of real > > > > estate and artistic treasures, a lot of which (including the Sistine > > > > Chapel - which I presume is what you meant with "michael angelo [sic] > > > > on the ceiling") is open to public viewing for a modest fee - used to > > > > maintain the substance of the area generally known as the "Vatican > > > > Museum." The value of it all is priceless, but also practically > > > > useless, since I know of no way in which it could be justly converted > > > > into liquid assets (would selling it to Bill Gates or Roman > Abramovich > > > > - preuming they wanted to buy - really make the world better?). A > > > > parallel example would be the Potala Palace in Lhasa (today > > > > nationalised by the Chinese and turned into a museum) which includes > > > > the tomb of the 13th. Dalai Lama, reportedly containing priceless > > > > jewels and a ton of gold. > > > > > > While the wearing of crowns remains a ritual/liturgical tradition in > > > > the Orthodox Churches (particularly that of Russia) it has never been > > > > a general part of RC liturgy and, in fact, even the Roman popes have > > > > not worn the (till then) traditional tiara for the past fifty years. > > > > > > The lack of openness and protection by many instances of Church > > > > authority of many priests who have been accused of abusing children > is > > > > a scandal of horrific proportions. While not in any way comparable to > > > > the suffering of the thousands of victims, there are also many > > > > thousands priests, sisters, brothers and lay workers who are > suffering > > > > from the fall-out and many of them are struggling against corrupt and > > > > encrusted structures within the organisation. My only regret about my > > > > personal departure from the said organisation is the feeling I still > > > > sometimes have that I was leaving a lot of honest, good friends to > > > > carry on their struggle without me. > > > > > > Francis- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > -- > > ( > > ) > > I_D Allan- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > -- ( ) I_D Allan --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
