I was wondering out loud about Neil's idea of selfish love. Wondering out loud is part of what we do here. Why the abrasive tone, Gabby?
On May 10, 2:05 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > And I think it is wonderful that people > > > can find their comfort zone in life and be satisfied with that. But I > > wonder if it isn't part of what Neil refers to as selfish forms of > > love, aside from the more exploitative kinds. > > Right, let’s talk about beginnings. Why would Molly, our mastress of > embrace-the-paradox, end her concluding sentence with this schismatic > “but”? To establish the paradox she makes out to make it embraceable? > Well, why would Molly want to create some extra work when she sees > that we don’t even handle our everyday work the way it is meant to? > No, that’s not Molly style. Molly, let me ask you directly why you > opened your last sentence the way you did. Would you care to explain, > and I don’t mean justify. > > On 10 Mai, 16:55, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Which gives us a nice blending of threads on love here. Is Eros > > selfish, relating only to the pleasure that I am receiving, and the > > overall feeling of being loved that it may bring? Or can it include a > > real connection with the other, two moving as one, without falling > > into the domain of agape? > > > I spent life as a single for fifteen years between marriages because I > > preferred expressing my love of life and others as a single than > > falling into a partnership where each expressed the other as the > > object of their love. For me, if love is limited to this, it becomes > > two people living side by side, expressing love as what the other can > > do for me, and what I can do for them, but not really feeling the true > > connection of two as one that I know is possible. As it turns out, I > > am glad that I held out for a love that is more in tune with what I > > know to be true, because it was totally worth the wait. Not that it > > isn't challenging, because all relationships are. And in between > > there were many interesting offers to combine my life with another - > > although I felt that I was being seen as object, as someone who could > > fill a predetermined role for the other - madonna/whore; housekeeper; > > business manager; arm candy... Whatever the case, I wasn't sure that I > > was appreciated for who I am, my viewpoint, my work, my being - but > > rather, expected to slip into a dutiful role that fit the others needs > > and lifestyle. > > > I think that there are many relationships around me that are a > > comfortable arrangement of finances, social activities and home life > > without much Eros or Agape. And I think it is wonderful that people > > can find their comfort zone in life and be satisfied with that. But I > > wonder if it isn't part of what Neil refers to as selfish forms of > > love, aside from the more exploitative kinds. > > > On May 10, 9:30 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > In some of the crasser gutters I have found some relationship between > > > begging and gratuitous offers of sex - Eros and other ideal Greek > > > forms perhaps easing the innocence I use as a shield (think of Batfink > > > Gabby - I'm pretty hopeless). Monogamy sounds a bit like something > > > one might find trying to swim in treacle. This said, I would have > > > made a pretty poor bonobo or chimp and have considerable respect for > > > pair-bonding and explorations of equality that may move us away from > > > selfish forms. > > > > On 7 May, 12:54, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I thought you had travelled the world, Chris. And what did you do > > > > there? Went to the local movie theatres? Americans and how they live > > > > their belief in ideals. *sigh* > > > > > OK, let me translate "to please others" for you. In international > > > > terms it means "begging" and is strictly unerotic. > > > > > On 7 Mai, 06:45, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > In classical psychology, it's the Madonna-Whore complex. In modern > > > > > culture, Ludacris calls out for "a Lady in the streets but a freak in > > > > > the bed!" The clash of puritanical public values with animalistic > > > > > private sexual desires creates a conflict that men (and less often > > > > > women) who are not honest with themselves and/or their partners often > > > > > express extra-relationally. In the ideal Eros relationship (ever > > > > > IMHO), honest communication and a desire to please the other allows > > > > > for mutual open exploration of the poles of desire, negating the > > > > > desire to engage in such dalliances. Despite a variety of cultural > > > > > relational phenotypes to choose from, I believe monogamy to be the > > > > > Eros ideal. > > > > > > On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 11:06 PM, archytas <[email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Somewhat over-long as I remember Chris. An old French mate of mine > > > > > > kept two mistresses - one who treated him like a mother. He was > > > > > > somewhat surprised that I didn't approve, even suspecting I was in > > > > > > love with his wife because of this. Sadly, I was only in love with > > > > > > her cooking and brilliant sense of humour. He was a very gentle > > > > > > soul, > > > > > > except when it came to arresting blaggers known to use violence and > > > > > > intimidation on women. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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