While I sympathise completely with your instinct to call a spade a spade, Slip, your honest desire to cut through political doublespeak and your genuine compassion for those whose suffering is not ameliorated and, indeed, increased by such platitudinous obfustication, I have problems with your solution in "viewing the world simply as black and white in order to eliminate the confusion ..."
We have seen too many revolutionaries - with, initially at least, honest motivation - take this path in the 19th. and 20th. Centuries. The results were usually horrific. I'm thinking of people like V.I. Lenin, or the Baader-Meinhoff gang. Don't get me wrong, I don't intend any direct comparisons with your thinking. But simplification can easily distort - leading in the end to simplistic, dualistic thinking. There are all sorts of levels of interconnectivity in our world, which makes many problems complex - or perhaps only the practical way to solutions. Francis On 12 Mai, 22:20, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > Yaya, that is a generality and may pertain to specific instance such > as you say with a harmonious and chaotic world perspective or the > color spectrum. I see homeless people, what do you see, people > camping? I see war, what do you see, domestic disturbance? I see > people starving, what do you see, people that might not be that > hungry? One of the major problems in the world is the sidestepping of > core issues through a maze of political sophism while societies sores > fester and spread like the plague. Politicians spew their rhetoric on > the soap box in an attempt to placate the masses. It is time to view > the world simply as black and white in order to eliminate the > confusion and get closer to the collective mentality, which we will > never accomplish if people continue to find loopholes to negate > reality. We are experiencing a dissemination of the world via the > differentiation of views. With black and white we can identify the > issues, address the issues, solve the issues and later begin again to > add colors to our world, if you get my drift. > > On May 12, 9:19 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Seeing what is before us is a matter of perspective and belief is one > > big factor in the shape of what we see. Two people looking at the > > same thing do not see the same thing. Their differences make what > > they are seeing different to them. If I see the world as harmonious, > > and Neil sees it as chaotic, it doesn't mean we are seeing different > > worlds, it means our perspectives are different based on our beliefs. > > > On May 12, 5:32 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > You are right about one belief vs another, and that too is a belief ! > > > <<Vam > > > It is not a belief it is a fact, all beliefs are beliefs. > > > > Clearly any belief to the believer can be the ultimate truth for that > > > believer, still, overall and in the context of all beliefs, that > > > belief, like all others remains a belief, the truth portion of which, > > > is subjective. > > > > To effect change one simply needs to see, as you say, what is before > > > us, later we can engage analysis. That is one reason why homeless > > > people are on the street. Too much time is being spent on the 'why is > > > this happening'. The people are there, no home, no food or water, > > > and what happens? They fix the banks! > > > > On May 11, 11:05 pm, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > There are two observations I wish to contribute, SD, if I may. > > > > > You are right about one belief vs another, and that too is a belief ! > > > > And I do not say this tongue in cheek. > > > > > But a belief isn't " just " a belief. The ' responsibility ' of > > > > holding the belief is immediately upon us. So, if I believe the rock > > > > is spiritual energy, it becomes encumbent that I ' see ' the spiritual > > > > energy the rock is and ' know ' the truth value of my belief. If I do > > > > happen to know that my belief is true, then I also know that the > > > > contrary belief ( the rock is NOT spiritual energy ) is untrue, > > > > regardless of how many people are holding that contrary belief. > > > > Therefore, equating one belief to another, forgetting how beliefs are > > > > ' rooted ' in individuals, seems facile. > > > > > Secondly, without the " Why," how does one determine what change to > > > > effect. Which leads to whims. However, I do see the importance of > > > > action at whatever that is before us, even if what is before us is not > > > > the " ultimate " we might be looking for. > > > > > On May 12, 4:05 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Content is irrelevant, probability is equal in regard to the > > > > > suppositional base of all religious beliefs. Without empirical > > > > > evidence to establish validity of one belief over another the > > > > > probability remains equal. Perhaps we can edit out 'ultimate truth' > > > > > which seems to be the catalyst for the focus on belief content. > > > > > So I can rephrase in saying "the probability of one belief being valid > > > > > is equal to that of any other belief". > > > > > > You think you are going to dissect commentary and take thoughts out of > > > > > context in order to challenge them? > > > > > You cut off "regardless of their existence" which was a reference to > > > > > "beliefs". > > > > > Nevertheless if you must. > > > > > Summarizing suffering into a cause and effect aspect Is another belief > > > > > Not a fact. There is not one religion, religious belief, spiritual > > > > > movement, revered guru or any other "secret" that has alleviated > > > > > suffering. So to believe that suffering is a product of a cause and > > > > > effect event is essentially "another belief". Maybe I believe that > > > > > suffering is the result of humanity's failure to achieve a collective > > > > > mentality, simply another belief. It isn't even a non sequitor > > > > > consideration as there is nothing that if following but each belief > > > > > stands individually. Put the microscope away! > > > > > > You don't see how I can believe that the criteria for validity is > > > > > simply belief. Well that is not accurate because I don't believe the > > > > > criteria for validity is simply belief and don't know why you gathered > > > > > that from my statement, which is........"I just don't see that any > > > > > belief is any more valid that any other belief, including my own." > > > > > This is simple truth. You believe rocks have spiritual energy and I > > > > > believe rocks contain good luck and gabby believes rocks make good > > > > > paper weights, so what makes your belief more valid? > > > > > > I say most problems have to to do with unhappiness because that is > > > > > simple observation Justin, greedy people are unhappy with what they > > > > > have and so need more, Madoff had millions but obviously he was > > > > > unhappy with it. People that are unhappy with their sex life may > > > > > resort to any deviation to fulfill that void in their happiness > > > > > pocket. People that are unhappy with their finances may rob a store > > > > > or these days kill their family and then themselves. Now you should > > > > > get out your magnifying glass and look for the unhappiness at the base > > > > > of problems. > > > > > > When I say "bypassing the Why" I purpose to address the here and now, > > > > > the immediate. Why waste time wondering about the why of it when we > > > > > can use that time to effect change. If we could bypass the why we > > > > > could facilitate immediate change and the in reflection address the > > > > > why. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
