Hey Vam, Thanks for ths post, the chalenge of re-thinking belifes is something that I personaly pursual vigerously.
You are correct I am not responsible for the creation of me, or more properly for the creation of this body. I do own myself however by dint of having a mind. Nobody but me can lay claim to my mind, both of my perants and indeed all those I have come into contact with that, have shapped my personality stil cannot claim to own me. These people that have helped in whatever small way to shape my mind cannot claim ownership of it either. Nor can they claim such over my body, for my body houses my mind. If I grew up a slave and a child of slaves in a real sense I would have a master who could claim ownership of my body, yet even in such a case my mind is still my own. My master could not for example order me to love him, nor order me to never attempt escape. Of course he could order such, but it is not his will that wins in such a case but my own. This shows that although a claim of ownership can be made, it is an errorounes claim. You are correct I do scoff at the idea of land ownership. When all that lay claim to land are dead and gone does the land revert to self ownership, or can we say that the land itself was never really owned in the first place, just borrowed? >From your end words can I assume Vam, that you belife in the sancticy of life? On 22 June, 10:58, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > " Ownership ... " > > A request to think again, Lee ! What have YOU done or given to create > this life you call your own ? In fact, this life has created YOU. > This life was seeded by your father, nurtured by your mother. What did > you do in that process ? It is this life, on the other hand, that > given you the faculties for you use, to learn and grow, the limbs, for > you to use and earn your livelihood and gather all manner of > experiences. > > There are a number of other people, I'm sure, who would have > contributed to nurture and safeguard, and grow this life you call your > own ( to the extent of retaining the right to end it at own exclusive > will ). Even the Government, and hence the UK taxpayers, would have > footed quite a few of the subsidies on your education and health ! > > I recall you scoffing at this idea of owning land. The situation with > your life is similar. You are its trustee and, as that, you have the > right to ( defend and nurture ) your life. Not to end it. Perhaps. > > On Jun 22, 2:14 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Yes a brave subject Rigsby. > > > So to continue the braveness I shall declare my position. > > > The ownership over your own life is the most fundimental 'right' that > > we humans have, and note I enclose the word right because I realise > > that there are no intrinsic rights, not even this one. > > > Now having said that however the reason why I belive that the killing > > of one human by another is moraly reprehensible is because such an act > > takes away this right of ownership. > > > So this in a nutshell is what I belive, which means that I view > > suicide as an extention of this right. If it is your wish to end your > > life, then it is your right to do so and I belive nobody should > > gainsay this. > > > On a personal note I also think that those who go through with the > > act, easpecily if they leave others behind, are brave in the > > extreame. To contemplate all the suffering that the death by you own > > hands would bring to those around you, and then to do it anyway. Of > > course this is only relevant for those who apprach the deed with a > > clear mind. > > > On 21 June, 02:08, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > It is not just the habit of poets rigsy. Suicide is the eleventh most > > > common > > > cause of death in the United States. A person dies by suicide about > > > every 16 minutes in the United States. An attempt is estimated to be > > > made once every minute. Though people who have the highest risk of > > > suicide are white men, women and teens report more suicide attempts. > > > This comparison speaks volumes concerning the seriousness of suicide. > > > Attempting suicide is just as much a problem as successful attempts. > > > > I've had many thoughts on suicide. Here is some rehashing. I truly > > > hope it is not within your immediate set of contemplations but simply > > > a melancholy drift, a dissipating cloud. > > > > Suicide is always the ultimate exit strategy unless someone is > > > confined in a prison or mental institution and strict measures are > > > taken to disallow the act. Thoughts of suicide at any age for any > > > reason can return at any time when the ugly side of life rears it's > > > head. If you thought about it when you were 8 you will think about it > > > when you are 38, 58 or 88. > > > > To terminate one's existence is entirely based on the individual's > > > perception of > > > life at the time of suicidal contemplation. To be more precise, when > > > all value in life has reached the point of nil, the life itself > > > becomes meaningless. When no amount of wealth or enlightenment offers > > > any degree of worth to the individual there is little desire to exist > > > as the question arises, "what is there to live for?". Surely there > > > are those who would offer alternative avenues to the suicidal > > > individual but the alternatives may only hold value to those > > > individuals offering the alternatives. Each individual lives within > > > the self consciousness of the individual's self and so no one can > > > transfer life values to that person. This is the dilemma that we face > > > when trying to understand why someone would want to commit suicide as > > > we cannot share the thought patterns of the individual prior to the > > > suicide and can no longer query the individual in the post suicidal > > > state. This is of course aside from heroic or religious based suicides > > > and detailed explanations left by the individual prior to suicide. > > > Though we all have the freedom (perhaps not the nerve) to commit > > > suicide, most choose life instead and find value in it's most simple > > > form. > > > > Truly the experience of just being alive is enough for some to > > > view it as being the main value in living. Some view suffering as part > > > of the living experience and therefore find no cause to terminate > > > life. Some may insist that suicide is wrong and unjust according to > > > various standards, however, I find that aspect to be centered upon > > > social/religious obligations. Considering that life remains enigmatic > > > and has yet to offer any proofs as to it's meaning or purpose, the act > > > of suicide is solely carried out according to the individual's > > > discretion. > > > > Perhaps we grasp at this life for it's mere existence and the > > > experience of the existence, as in a blissful dream from which we do > > > not want to leave. We know the dream is occurring in our sleep state > > > and when we awake our mind will return to our conscious world but we > > > still in some instances wish we didn't wake up. This excludes > > > nightmares or disturbing dreams of course. > > > > The ramifications of the suicidal act, I think, are not something that > > > the suicidal > > > weighs heavily during the moment of truth. The suicidal at some > > > point must eliminate all other aspects of life surrounding > > > individuality. Concern for others might be a consideration but the > > > ultimate focus becomes the self in the end. The suffering becomes so > > > internalized and undetectable but never the less, it festers within > > > until it is no longer containable. The people surrounding the > > > individual are usually caught in a daze of shock and dismay without > > > any clues. > > > > I don't always look at suicide as the failure of the suicidal as much > > > as I see it as a failure of society to address the issues that lead to > > > suicide and the stigma and repercussions of the act itself. We must > > > re-examine the values of humanity before we can alleviate the problems > > > of depression and suicide, alcohol and drug abuse. The complexities > > > are overwhelming. > > > > One thing for sure is, Life is for Living! > > > > On Jun 20, 6:56 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > A habit of poets. A boost to book sales and theories. Women might as > > > > well throw themselves over the cliff after 30. The world belongs to > > > > men. Children are sandbags to a woman's dream.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
