Puppy - first, thanks for responding to my post. I wish I could respond to yours in a positive fashion. But in all honesty and candor, I can't, and I'm sorry. My first problem is that I see the Bible as just a set of campfire stories. Second, I don't understand why anyone would worship the God of the Bible. This is the guy who, according to the Bible, told Abraham to kill his only son, and who put Job through hell here on earth to win a bet, and who condemned his only son, Jesus, to die a death of prolonged torture. This is no God that I want anything to do with. So bringing God into the discussion really puts me off. Oh, and also matter doesn't return to matter ultimately; it returns to what it was initially - energy. Thus, Enistein's equation. Anyway, those are my views today. Who knows what I'll think tomorrow? Jim
On Jun 19, 7:13 am, puppy <[email protected]> wrote: > Another viewpoint. Another possibility. "Death is not a period but a > comma in the story of life." (author unknown) > > Clarification and Being > > Jean-Yves Leloup, mystic, theologian and scholar, book The > Gospels of Mary Magdalene is a thought provoking. It is a book with > wisdom for believers, skeptics, agnostics and atheists. Jean-Yves > Leloup has written a stunning commentary on the ancient Gnostic text. > One of the proverbs from the Gospel of Mary Magdalene.: The > teacher(God) answered: "All that is born, all that is created, all > the elements of nature are inter-woven and united with each other. > All that is composed will decompose; everything returns to the roots; > matter returns to the order of matter: " > These words, written 2,000 years ago, are not religious dogma, > linguistic meanderings or rhetoric, but ancient knowledge which > coincides with what science knows to be true today. Here science and > spiritually meet and separate at the same time: because science does > not yet fully agree, with the spiritual dimension of the proverbs. > The Gospels of Mary Magdalene say: 'That the teachers (God) > words are the beginning of the return to being fully human and > discovering the real world and the wisdom of God which are also the > words of ancient wisdom." > > Leloup writes: “Everything returns to its roots; matter returns to > the original matter. All evolution involves a return. To return is > not to go back--rather to go forward..... It is a return to the place > that is our origin and our destiny....We return to the Source and the > beginning." > > The Gospels of Mary Magdalene are about a Kingdom we can know as > living beings in this world. The knowledge is meant to re-interrogate > humans with theirselves so they can become fully human and above the > illusions, attachments and the suffering brought to life through the > seven deadly sins of: pride, lust, envy anger, covetousness, > gluttony, and sloth. Which are present, and the motives, in the > greater sins of genocide, wars, murder, fraud, violence, pedophilia, > rape and the sins of skepticism. pessimism and cynicism which are the > final disillusionment. For God says: There are no sins. It is man > that makes sin exist. > > Leloup writes: “Through the poor use of our senses, > intelligence, and emotions, these faculties have become disoriented- > they have lost there orient, that is to say, their attunment with the > Being that is at the heart of all impermanence, transitory phenomena > of the world. It is only this disorientation that enables us to > pervert ourselves, society, and the universal order itself.” As we > have noticed in the turmoil of our senses and in the world. > Leloup says: “Furthermore the Kingdom that is spoken of in The > Gospels of Mary Magdalene must not be confused with the return to > some sort of lost paradise or a state of consciousness. Rather it is > the awakening to this very dimension of Being that is the source of > our existence now, and of the mystery of there being something instead > of nothing." > > On Jun 18, 1:16 pm, retiredjim34 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > For some time, being retired, I have been thinking about such > > ultimate questions as: why are we here, what is life all about, what > > happens when we die, and do we continue to exist after we die. Drawing > > on a lifetime of reading and experience, I think I’ve arrived at some > > unusual answers. > > To begin building a foundation for those answers, I first wondered > > about just who I am; what is it that is me? I don’t believe I’m the > > reflection I see in the mirror. No. If I lost an arm or leg, I still > > believe I would be 100% me. It seems that the real me, then, is the > > consciousness that is within my body. Hmmm. How might I check this? > > How about my memory. During part of my working career I was involved > > with data storage and encoding, the object being to pack as much > > information into as little storage as possible. If you think about all > > the things you remember – scenes, happenings, conversations, other > > sounds, smells, numbers, taught information, etc. – and the capacity > > of the human brain, it is clear that the human brain can remember at > > most only a day or two of recent events. So where are the things I > > remember stored? > > I happen to have had a couple of out-of-body experiences. I recall > > being conscious of looking at my body lying on a bed, and of being > > able to look around the room and out the window. Each time the > > experience scared me, and I quickly returned to my body. But while out- > > of-body I now realize that I could recall everything I could think of > > while in my body; the me that was in my body was still the me that was > > out of my body. > > Many books describe out-of-body experiences. The best, I think, is > > Thirty Years Among the Dead by Dr. Carl Wickland. In it, he discusses > > numerous examples of patients who had died yet whose spirit was still > > “here,” entwined with another body. In each case, the spirit of the > > now dead person had what seems to be a perfectly normal memory of > > their life, and exhibited the personality quirks they had while alive. > > So it seems that the human memory resides elsewhere that in the human > > body. > > Fine, but still why am I here? Indeed, why is anybody or anything > > here? Consider what “here” is. We know that this world, and everything > > else in the universe, is matter disbursed in an almost infinite amount > > of space. But then we also know that E=mc². In words, this "here" can > > be reduced to the simple statement that all is energy, even matter. So > > “here” is a vast pool of energy, a pool that includes each of us as > > well as everything else in this physical universe. Yet it seems that > > our memory does not reside in this physical universe, given that it is > > not the me in the mirror but is present in out-of-body experiences. > > Could it be that there is a consciousness, what might be called an > > infinite consciousness, that contains each of our memories as well as > > everything else that has ever happened anywhere in the universe at any > > time, and maybe even a lot more than that? I don’t know of anything to > > disprove this possibility, so let’s assume for now that it might be > > correct. > > So why am I here? Well, all that is in the universe might be here > > simply because it pleases the infinite consciousness that this is so. > > It is simply an exercise of an attribute of that consciousness. Fine. > > But why am I here? Assume that the infinite consciousness wishes to > > experience this physical universe. Of course this could be done by > > endowing each thing in the universe with its own consciousness. That > > consciousness would know that it was part of a much greater whole. But > > it would also know that it was discrete in and of itself. Yet we don’t > > know that – each of us believes that we are complete and separate from > > all others; we have the freedom to be whatever we choose and do > > whatever we want. It’s as if there is a veil or curtain between our > > discrete consciousness and the infinite consciousness, this veil > > concealing our connection to the whole. (Unless we ponder such things > > as where our memories are stored.) Put differently, the only way the > > infinite consciousness can experience this universe from within the > > universe is to use such a veil to conceal from the individual’s > > consciousness his connection to the whole. Could that be why we are > > here? I think so. > > So what happens at death? Drawing on this view of consciousness, > > both > > individual and infinite, it would seem that all that happens at death > > is that the physical body ceases to function. The individual > > consciousness continues. And that is just what books like Dr. > > Wickland’s report. If you want to know what happens beyond death, the > > Seth books by Jane Roberts gives one view, or answer, a view that > > seems to build on that expressed by Dr. Wickland. > > I would welcome reading your reaction to all this. Does it make > > sense > > to you? Is this a rational and sufficient explanation of the ultimate > > questions, or of why we are here? Or not?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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