Agian Molly I shall ask huh? All rights (as far as can see) are either taken or granted bar one, and that is as I have said before now the right of ownership of your mind.
I just cannot see how leaving a person to die naturaly if you do not know or they cannot convey their wishes goes agianst this. On 16 July, 16:23, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > So it would seem to be not inherently right, but one that we seize for > ourselves. Were it inherently right, it would be available to > everyone. > > On Jul 16, 11:16 am, "[email protected]" > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Then there is no other option than to leave me be. Do not presume to > > know my wishes, I think that is safe option for everybody. > > > On 16 July, 15:51, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > And in the event that you are not able to make that decision? > > > > On Jul 16, 10:17 am, "[email protected]" > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > It is clear to me that the only one to make the deision of wheter or > > > > not to die is the individual make that choice for themselves. It > > > > comes back to ownership. Nobody owns my soul nor my body nor my mind > > > > except myself that is. > > > > > If I say yes kill me now, then you had better comply with my wishes, > > > > if I say no I'll hold on until the bitter natural end, then the same > > > > applies. > > > > > On 16 July, 14:12, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I am appalled at our level of blame here. Currently in the US, we > > > > > have the ability to choose or not choose the medical model. No one is > > > > > forcing us to go to the doctor. Also, Hospice care is available to > > > > > everyone and free to Medicare recipients. The Hospice protocol is to > > > > > get rid of the meds and patients often see a rebound in health > > > > > afterward. It does not stop the end from coming. Trust in families > > > > > is an age old problem and I suppose, begins with us. We spend a life > > > > > time developing our relationships, and if they are not based on trust, > > > > > what can we expect in the end? Often, those left with all of the work > > > > > and responsibility of caring for the aged and dying in their families > > > > > are blamed for a reduction of assets. Not sure what they expect it to > > > > > cost. Because we never really know when the end is near, how do we > > > > > make the call about selling a home etc,.? More often than not, the > > > > > bickering about assets of the deceased is sour grapes. > > > > > > In the end, I think that if we have led a life of dignity, our death > > > > > with dignity will follow. This is not always the case for reasons > > > > > unexplained. Can we have faith our death is what we need it to be, no > > > > > matter how it appears outwardly? I think the issue of paid suicide is > > > > > much more complicated than the abortion issue, where the mother is the > > > > > decision maker and has rights in that she is pregnant and will > > > > > deliver. Alzheimer's patients would not have the cognitive ability to > > > > > make the decision to suicide. Should someone have the right to make > > > > > that for them? How about people with cognative disabilities? Should > > > > > we only keep them around if someone can afford to pay for their care? > > > > > > On Jul 16, 8:48 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Highly possible that Kevorkian presented a threat to the medical and > > > > > > more so the giant pharmaceutical industry. They would probably > > > > > > topple > > > > > > if terminally ill and elderly people decided to check out and skip > > > > > > the > > > > > > med bandwagon. It goes to show "again" how much power corporate > > > > > > lobbyists have on government, it's like a choke collar on a pit bull > > > > > > and as usually the people are the puppets and pawns in the money > > > > > > making game. The one drug that people can grow in their yards of > > > > > > course is illegal, they can't allow self medication that doesn't > > > > > > bring > > > > > > in revenue. > > > > > > > On Jul 16, 5:47 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > There comes a point of no return but do not think my mother ever > > > > > > > considered suicide to end her suffering. Strong willed, was > > > > > > > she.//Your > > > > > > > post was interesting- perhaps Kevorkian was a threat to the > > > > > > > medical > > > > > > > profession and the lucrative nursing home industry- plus the > > > > > > > attendant > > > > > > > bureaucracies of the courts and social services. There is a case > > > > > > > in my > > > > > > > local news where the daughter embezzled her mother's fortune via > > > > > > > power > > > > > > > of attorney which is shameful- so family isn't always the answer, > > > > > > > either- neither are shady court appointed guardians.//This whole > > > > > > > business is going to get interesting as Social Security peters > > > > > > > out and > > > > > > > the government must decide/ration health care costs- they could > > > > > > > kill > > > > > > > one old bird with two stones.// What these new approaches may > > > > > > > hasten > > > > > > > is a vigorous objection from active, healthy seniors who refuse to > > > > > > > submit to ageism and elder abuse and treasure their final years on > > > > > > > their own terms because they can and have earned the right to > > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > Our society is youth oriented so it won't be easy. I find myself > > > > > > > looking at the images of middle aged to senior men and women and > > > > > > > find > > > > > > > they are often stereotyped which is ridiculous and insulting. On > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > other hand, you have Gloria Vanderbilt's new book "Obsession" > > > > > > > which is > > > > > > > her Marquis de Sade experiment in elder-lust- she is 85! lol Poor > > > > > > > little Gloria- smutty at last! > > > > > > > > On Jul 16, 1:07 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > We put our pets down when they are no longer able to walk and > > > > > > > > function > > > > > > > > in their old age but we insanely subject ourselves to the aches > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > aging, the bed sores and agonizing pain that haunt our every > > > > > > > > conscious > > > > > > > > minute. I never did understand the Kevorkian problem, it's not > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > the people did not want to check out. I would think that early > > > > > > > > religious ideals embedded within the fabric of the country > > > > > > > > still have > > > > > > > > a grip on the acceptability of suicide, notions of good and bad > > > > > > > > forced > > > > > > > > upon the people regardless of their personal beliefs. As you > > > > > > > > pointed > > > > > > > > out, the idea that abortion is a acceptable practice is > > > > > > > > dumbfounding, > > > > > > > > where does the choice of life or death lie in that? It is all > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > political ownership of life. We develop lousy governments to > > > > > > > > boss us > > > > > > > > around. > > > > > > > > > On Jul 15, 2:29 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/world/europe/15britain.html > > > > > > > > > > With a swoon of Prokofiev! Read the reader comments as well as > > > > > > > > > Americans may be waking up to the fraud that is end of life > > > > > > > > > care and a > > > > > > > > > national disgrace.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
