" God, as everything in a cause-and-effect universe is subject to the absolute truths of logic."
There is God. There are absolute truths of logic. God is subject to, within the bounds of, the absolute truths of logic. So, the absolute truths of logic are supreme. So, God is not supreme. The absolute truths of logic are supreme. I will not conclude in respect of omnipotence because, Pat admits, God cannot make a square circle ! On Sep 11, 3:16 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > On 10 Sep, 15:08, Simon Ewins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > 2009/9/10 Pat <[email protected]>: > > > > On 8 Sep, 17:44, Simon Ewins <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> A) Everything that God says is true because truth is what God says > > >> B) God says X at time T1 > > >> C) X is true because all God says is true > > >> D) God says Y not X at time T2 > > >> E) Y is true because all God says is true > > >> F) God did not lie at T1 even though at T2 what was said at T1 is now > > >> false > > > >> See? > > > > I see you're using letters and not actual statements that have > > > relevance. If you would be so kind as to supply actual, written > > > statements as your 'X at T1' and 'Y at T2', then we might have > > > something substantial with which to discuss. If you cannot fill in > > > those blanks with actual arguments that demonstrate your point, then > > > you might want to reconsider it. All the best!! > > > <sigh> Fine. > > > A) Everything that God says is true because truth is what God says > > B) God says "bananas are not poisonous" at time 00:00 > > C) "bananas are not poisonous" is true because all that God says is true > > Here, you can test this by eating a banana. This will result in > one of two reactions: > C1) the banana did not poison you, so God has told you the > truth. > C2) the banana was poisonous, God lied and you don't live to > see/hear D-F {thus, either God is a liar or it wasn't God that told > you the B statement} > > > D) God says "bananas are poisonous" at time 00:10 > > E) "bananas are poisonous" is true because all God says is true > > Here, if you've survived C1, you can re-test by eating another > banana. This will result in one of two reactions: > D1) the banana did not poison you {thus God is a liar or it > wasn't God that told you the D statement} > D2) the banana poisoned you (God told the truth and, > somehow, between 00:00 and 00:10, bananas became poisoned). > > > F) God did not lie at 00:00 even though at 00:10 what was said at > > 00:00 is now false > > In order for that to occur, either something poisoned the bananas > (and God did not inform you of that mechanism of that poisoning) or > one of the enities you THOUGHT was God, wasn't. No 'change of mind' > by God is required, only a change of circumstances concerning bananas. > > > I really find it hard to believe that you are incapable of filling in > > your own values for T1, T2, X and Y. Now, you try filling in anything > > you like for those values and the result will be the same. Which is: > > > God is not subject to an external standard for truth, all things that > > God says are true, God is the source of truth. God can change his mind > > anytime he desires without contradicting himself or having, > > previously, lied. > > > Do you really feel that this omnipotent god of yours cannot change its mind? > > God cannot change His mind. But that does not prevent you from > perceiving that He did. Also, one must consider the difference > between absolute and relative truth. E.g., "not(False)=True" is an > absolute truth, "the direction one points when one points 'left'" is a > relative truth. Omnipotence means being able to perform, and actually > performing, all that is possible for energy to perform. Those things > that exist in the space-time continuum are fixed there and they cannot > be changed, they can only be experienced. God, as everything in a > cause-and-effect universe is subject to the absolute truths of logic. > > - Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
