thanks for the giggle
On Sep 13, 8:13 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Rarely do I slip into a dream that is
> not vivid.">MB
> Love the Freudian slippage Molly. ;-) Especially.....
> "When I do, I know that I have an anxiety that needs
> attention and release.">MB wow!
> I'm sure a round trip airfare special can remedy that. lol
>
> Seriously though, we have shared some insightful dream experiences
> and, as you are aware, I do have very powerful dreams. I love the
> dreamscape because I can leave the here and now, become aware of other
> worlds, experience what doesn't happen here. The consciousness level,
> for me, transcends the mundane world or entertainment.
>
> On Sep 13, 5:42 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I think you are right, Slip, we did cover much of this in our
> > conversation of dreams. Vivid dreaming and creative dreaming, I
> > think, allow us to access the most expansive (or deepest, or least
> > differentiated, or formless, more purest spiritual or however we
> > describe them) states of consciousness. In fact, I think this is
> > where we bring these states into being. As you know, most of my
> > dreams are vivid and creative. Rarely do I slip into a dream that is
> > not vivid. When I do, I know that I have an anxiety that needs
> > attention and release. As this became the case for me, my desire for
> > meditation diminished. I no longer need a method to access the states
> > as falling asleep takes me there, and I can consciously and creatively
> > direct myself in these states. Even so, I allow the the dreams more
> > than direct them, as this, I think, allows me greater possibility.
>
> > On Sep 13, 5:30 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Molly, I think much of what we covered in the dream threads has
> > > relevancy. I think and believe there are 'interim' states, some can
> > > be disturbing and some not. Before reaching the desired state of
> > > consciousness the duality aspect comes into play during the interim
> > > states and as you say the process is internal thereby accessing all
> > > areas of individual consciousness. I would say that along the journey
> > > less and less of the individual is evident making the end experience
> > > somewhat surreal. Those who have not experienced it cannot understand
> > > it.
>
> > > On Sep 13, 12:58 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > Yes, I see what you are saying. But hopefully you can appreciate that
> > > > I am a poet, not a scientist. I have never set myself to the task of
> > > > determining criterion, only writing about my experience. I think that
> > > > it is important that we each make the journey, although understand
> > > > that some do not find the value in it. Because the process is
> > > > internal, and at best all we have is a description of the individual
> > > > process, (other than measurement of body function and environment), it
> > > > would stand to reason that yes, when we look at composite results we
> > > > are left with myriad descriptions of individual processes. Is the
> > > > process different, our ability to describe it different? Does our
> > > > language place limits on our perceptions, or simply our ability to
> > > > relate them?
>
> > > > I can speak to you about my experience, and include anecdotal
> > > > information from others I have read ( which is probably more limited
> > > > than some others in the group.) And, I would be glad to do so!
>
> > > > If you have not had this experience, you may never accept anyone
> > > > else's description of it. This, I have noticed in talking with other
> > > > people about it.
>
> > > > On Sep 13, 1:12 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > > > Molly - Not to trivilaize your response. But it is a little bit like
> > > > > the cliche answer to
>
> > > > > coming up with a satisfactory answer to the nature of pornography. "I
> > > > > may not know excatly
>
> > > > > how to describe it, but I know it when I see it."
>
> > > > > I am inclined to believe that such states of consciousness are indeed
> > > > > identifiable however it is also
>
> > > > > quite likely that their meaning and use are subject to a wide
> > > > > vsariance due to individual differences.
>
> > > > > For example: as a psychoanalyst I am a change agent. I know that
> > > > > signficant change can and does occur.
>
> > > > > I also know that it is incremental and always met with strong
> > > > > resistances. I also know that when significant
>
> > > > > changes occur - as lets say when a person experiences a synchronicity
> > > > > - there is always a major shift in
>
> > > > > consciousness (expansion?) which can have wide spread ripple effects
> > > > > in the areas you describe.
>
> > > > > However the changes are always person specific. I think you probably
> > > > > will substantially agree with what I am describing. No?
>
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Molly Brogan <[email protected]>
> > > > > To: "Minds Eye" <[email protected]>
> > > > > Sent: Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:53 pm
> > > > > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: consciousness
>
> > > > > How does one know when the "undifferentiated, ineffable, omniscient
> > > > > ealm of all possibility be experienced in sleep if one is
> > > > > nconscious?"
> > > > > In my experience, vivid dreaming allows the conscious recognition of
> > > > > his state.
>
> > > > > And if it is possible to experience such a state when one is
> > > > > nconscious then
> > > > > it reasonable to believe that one can experience when
> > > > > ne is also conscious."
> > > > > Yes, in the awake state, I first accessed this state in meditation,
> > > > > hen contemplation. Now, as I say, I believe it is part of the
> > > > > ackground program in my moment to moment consciousness.
>
> > > > > If so by what criterion does one know if and when he or she is
> > > > > xperiencing such a state?"
> > > > > I think this is like someone who has never seen Mt. Rushmore, asking
> > > > > ow they will know when they arrive there. It is unmistakable, and I
> > > > > now this only by experience.
>
> > > > > And even if such a state is perceivable what difference does it
> > > > > ake?"
> > > > > It seems to have made a difference to me in my viewpoint, how I see
> > > > > he world; my character, how I respond in my experience; my
> > > > > elationships, how I treat others; my self image, how I maintain my
> > > > > iving self.
> > > > > This is how I understand it. Others may have a different view.
>
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: [email protected]
> > > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > > Sent: Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:51 pm
> > > > > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: consciousness
>
> > > > > Also, the undifferentiated, ineffable, omniscient,
> > > > > realm of all possibility can be experienced in sleep or deep
> > > > > meditation and contemplation.
>
> > > > > The atonement thing - that everything is connected with everything
> > > > > else -
> > > > > ppears to me to be obvious. But
>
> > > > > so what? Individuals must still individually reckon with the meaning
> > > > > of that
> > > > > xperience which is differient for
>
> > > > > different people.?In reflections about the nature of consciousness I
> > > > > think
> > > > > here is entirely too m
> > > > > uch emphasis
>
> > > > > on the unity 'thing' and way too little on differences. Case in
> > > > > point - my
> > > > > ersonal and professional experience
>
> > > > > (I am a practicing psychoanalyst for the past 44 years) indicates
> > > > > there is not
> > > > > ust one consciousness (such as
>
> > > > > unconscious, sub conscious, pre conscious, but a continuum of
> > > > > consciousness.
>
> > > > > ?
>
> > > > > Among the states of consciousness along the continuum of
> > > > > consciousness are:
> > > > > aleidoscopic consciousness,
>
> > > > > symbiotic consciousness, transcendent consciousness, transitional
> > > > > onsciousness, transformational consciousness,
>
> > > > > ego consciouness, unity or syntehtic consciousness, and cosmic
> > > > > consciousness -
> > > > > erhaps more.
>
> > > > > ?
>
> > > > > Consciousness functions like a filter which enables a person to
> > > > > organize the
> > > > > aw data of their experience. Each state
>
> > > > > of consciousness functions as a different filter or set of filters
> > > > > which
> > > > > hanges (interprets) what is perceived with alternative
>
> > > > > perspectives.
>
> > > > > ?
>
> > > > > This way of viewing things is what I think accounts for the stark
> > > > > difference
> > > > > n differing interpretations as to the nature of lets say
> > > > > synchronicities.
> > > > > ung's basic unproven assumption about the collective unconscious as
> > > > > the core of
> > > > > eality enables his mystical magical interpretation of synchronicities
> > > > > to be
> > > > > hat it is -? whereas an assumption of lets say the personal
> > > > > unconscious
> > > > > enerating personal meanings of whatever is perceived would result in
> > > > > a purely
> > > > > aturalistic non mystical non magical interpretation of the nature of
> > > > > ynchronicities.
>
> > > > > ?
>
> > > > > Viva le differance!
>
> > > > > ?
>
> > > > > : consciousness
>
> > > > > Y
> > > > > es, and I think we generate meaningful connections by the experience
> > > > > of consciousness, not the intellectual speculation of consciousness,
> > > > > as has been suggested in a couple different threads. I believe that
> > > > > states like cosmic consciousness (experience all time and others and
> > > > > all that is) can and are experienced in sleep and deep meditation or
> > > > > contemplation. Also, the undifferentiated, ineffable, omniscient,
> > > > > realm of all possibility can be experienced in sleep or deep
> > > > > meditation and contemplation. Once accessed, it is carried with us
> > > > > like a background program running though all our experience. We all
> > > > > have the potentiality. We recognize and experience when a change in
> > > > > viewpoint allows the possibility to manifest as real in our
> > > > > experience. The intellectual speculation may lead us to a change in
> > > > > viewpoint, or it may not. Our viewpoint
>
> ...
>
> read more »
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
""Minds Eye"" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
[email protected]
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
