It is very powerful. I think the most important thing is the integration of these states into our lives so that each moment, we fully are all of them.
On Sep 13, 8:53 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > Your welcome, that's what friends are for. > > Seriously though, Molly, we have shared some insightful dream > experiences > and, as you are aware, I do have very powerful dreams. I love the > dreamscape because I can leave the here and now, become aware of other > worlds, experience what doesn't happen here. The consciousness level, > for me, transcends the mundane world or entertainment. > > Sometimes I think you of all understand the capacity of that realm, > the beyond, the unattainable for the many and the ultimate experience > for the few. It is a consciousness beyond all consciousness as we > know it, here, now, awake in this world. It is not scientific but > cosmic spirituality. Truthfully I don't understand it as fully as I > experience it. > > On Sep 13, 7:31 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > thanks for the giggle > > > On Sep 13, 8:13 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > "Rarely do I slip into a dream that is > > > not vivid.">MB > > > Love the Freudian slippage Molly. ;-) Especially..... > > > "When I do, I know that I have an anxiety that needs > > > attention and release.">MB wow! > > > I'm sure a round trip airfare special can remedy that. lol > > > > Seriously though, we have shared some insightful dream experiences > > > and, as you are aware, I do have very powerful dreams. I love the > > > dreamscape because I can leave the here and now, become aware of other > > > worlds, experience what doesn't happen here. The consciousness level, > > > for me, transcends the mundane world or entertainment. > > > > On Sep 13, 5:42 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I think you are right, Slip, we did cover much of this in our > > > > conversation of dreams. Vivid dreaming and creative dreaming, I > > > > think, allow us to access the most expansive (or deepest, or least > > > > differentiated, or formless, more purest spiritual or however we > > > > describe them) states of consciousness. In fact, I think this is > > > > where we bring these states into being. As you know, most of my > > > > dreams are vivid and creative. Rarely do I slip into a dream that is > > > > not vivid. When I do, I know that I have an anxiety that needs > > > > attention and release. As this became the case for me, my desire for > > > > meditation diminished. I no longer need a method to access the states > > > > as falling asleep takes me there, and I can consciously and creatively > > > > direct myself in these states. Even so, I allow the the dreams more > > > > than direct them, as this, I think, allows me greater possibility. > > > > > On Sep 13, 5:30 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Molly, I think much of what we covered in the dream threads has > > > > > relevancy. I think and believe there are 'interim' states, some can > > > > > be disturbing and some not. Before reaching the desired state of > > > > > consciousness the duality aspect comes into play during the interim > > > > > states and as you say the process is internal thereby accessing all > > > > > areas of individual consciousness. I would say that along the journey > > > > > less and less of the individual is evident making the end experience > > > > > somewhat surreal. Those who have not experienced it cannot understand > > > > > it. > > > > > > On Sep 13, 12:58 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Yes, I see what you are saying. But hopefully you can appreciate > > > > > > that > > > > > > I am a poet, not a scientist. I have never set myself to the task > > > > > > of > > > > > > determining criterion, only writing about my experience. I think > > > > > > that > > > > > > it is important that we each make the journey, although understand > > > > > > that some do not find the value in it. Because the process is > > > > > > internal, and at best all we have is a description of the individual > > > > > > process, (other than measurement of body function and environment), > > > > > > it > > > > > > would stand to reason that yes, when we look at composite results we > > > > > > are left with myriad descriptions of individual processes. Is the > > > > > > process different, our ability to describe it different? Does our > > > > > > language place limits on our perceptions, or simply our ability to > > > > > > relate them? > > > > > > > I can speak to you about my experience, and include anecdotal > > > > > > information from others I have read ( which is probably more limited > > > > > > than some others in the group.) And, I would be glad to do so! > > > > > > > If you have not had this experience, you may never accept anyone > > > > > > else's description of it. This, I have noticed in talking with > > > > > > other > > > > > > people about it. > > > > > > > On Sep 13, 1:12 pm, [email protected] wrote: > > > > > > > > Molly - Not to trivilaize your response. But it is a little bit > > > > > > > like the cliche answer to > > > > > > > > coming up with a satisfactory answer to the nature of > > > > > > > pornography. "I may not know excatly > > > > > > > > how to describe it, but I know it when I see it." > > > > > > > > I am inclined to believe that such states of consciousness are > > > > > > > indeed identifiable however it is also > > > > > > > > quite likely that their meaning and use are subject to a wide > > > > > > > vsariance due to individual differences. > > > > > > > > For example: as a psychoanalyst I am a change agent. I know that > > > > > > > signficant change can and does occur. > > > > > > > > I also know that it is incremental and always met with strong > > > > > > > resistances. I also know that when significant > > > > > > > > changes occur - as lets say when a person experiences a > > > > > > > synchronicity - there is always a major shift in > > > > > > > > consciousness (expansion?) which can have wide spread ripple > > > > > > > effects in the areas you describe. > > > > > > > > However the changes are always person specific. I think you > > > > > > > probably will substantially agree with what I am describing. No? > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Molly Brogan <[email protected]> > > > > > > > To: "Minds Eye" <[email protected]> > > > > > > > Sent: Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:53 pm > > > > > > > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: consciousness > > > > > > > > How does one know when the "undifferentiated, ineffable, > > > > > > > omniscient > > > > > > > ealm of all possibility be experienced in sleep if one is > > > > > > > nconscious?" > > > > > > > In my experience, vivid dreaming allows the conscious recognition > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > his state. > > > > > > > > And if it is possible to experience such a state when one is > > > > > > > nconscious then > > > > > > > it reasonable to believe that one can experience when > > > > > > > ne is also conscious." > > > > > > > Yes, in the awake state, I first accessed this state in > > > > > > > meditation, > > > > > > > hen contemplation. Now, as I say, I believe it is part of the > > > > > > > ackground program in my moment to moment consciousness. > > > > > > > > If so by what criterion does one know if and when he or she is > > > > > > > xperiencing such a state?" > > > > > > > I think this is like someone who has never seen Mt. Rushmore, > > > > > > > asking > > > > > > > ow they will know when they arrive there. It is unmistakable, > > > > > > > and I > > > > > > > now this only by experience. > > > > > > > > And even if such a state is perceivable what difference does it > > > > > > > ake?" > > > > > > > It seems to have made a difference to me in my viewpoint, how I > > > > > > > see > > > > > > > he world; my character, how I respond in my experience; my > > > > > > > elationships, how I treat others; my self image, how I maintain my > > > > > > > iving self. > > > > > > > This is how I understand it. Others may have a different view. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > Sent: Sat, Sep 12, 2009 12:51 pm > > > > > > > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: consciousness > > > > > > > > Also, the undifferentiated, ineffable, omniscient, > > > > > > > realm of all possibility can be experienced in sleep or deep > > > > > > > meditation and contemplation. > > > > > > > > The atonement thing - that everything is connected with > > > > > > > everything else - > > > > > > > ppears to me to be obvious. But > > > > > > > > so what? Individuals must still individually reckon with the > > > > > > > meaning of that > > > > > > > xperience which is differient for > > > > > > > > different people.?In reflections about the nature of > > > > > > > consciousness I think > > > > > > > here is entirely too m > > > > > > > uch emphasis > > > > > > > > on the unity 'thing' and way too little on differences. Case in > > > > > > > point - my > > > > > > > ersonal and professional experience > > > > > > > > (I am a practicing psychoanalyst for the past 44 years) > > > > > > > indicates there is not > > > > > > > ust one consciousness (such as > > > > > > > > unconscious, sub conscious, pre conscious, but a continuum of > > > > > > > consciousness. > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > Among the states of consciousness along the continuum of > > > > > > > consciousness are: > > > > > > > aleidoscopic consciousness, > > > > > > > > symbiotic consciousness, transcendent consciousness, transitional > > > > > > > onsciousness, transformational consciousness, > > > > > > > > ego consciouness, unity or syntehtic consciousness, and cosmic > > > > > > > consciousness - > > > > > > > erhaps more. > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > Consciousness functions like a filter which enables a person to > > > > > > > organize the > > > > > > > aw data of their experience. Each state > > > > > > > > of consciousness functions as a different filter or set of > > > > > > > filters which > > > > > > > hanges (interprets) what is perceived with alternative > > > > > > > > perspectives. > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > This way of viewing things is what I think accounts for the > > > > > > > stark difference > > > > > > > n differing interpretations as to the nature of lets say > > > > > > > synchronicities. > > > > > > > ung's basic unproven assumption about the collective unconscious > > > > > > > as the core of > > > > > > > eality > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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