I think the history of leadership shows it is pathologically abhorrent face Vam - but most terms are noble and ignoble. Even when we all think current leadership is bad we can only (if lucky enough) vote in another one. This is a great survival context for leadership, if not for us. George Gallop thought his opinion polls would greatly strengthen democracy, but leadership has rather usurped them. We have the technology for more deliberative polling (I have an academic paper should anyone be interested) and have had a few experiments. The key to living with more of the noble face of leadership starts in more communication of opinion and removing one of the ignoble sides - that of promoting false opinion and propaganda. Deliberative Polling is just one idea - we could also move towards much more localised accounting within a system developed from it. All cultural systems of leadership I've seen rely on some kind of control of the leadership. I suspect now that leadership is everywhere it isn't needed, controlling us, broadly as an unfriendly parasite. We need decision- making in our hands, but even something as obvious as this comes with the knowledge the wrong form of this just slows everything to a trickle as most people can't see beyond their own immediate interests. We need to recognise the Doublespeak of easy sloganising in a path to demystifying social cohesion. I believe the spreadsheet could come to our aid here - as an example of technology enabling decisions in a deliberative context. I must say, old friend, that once I discovered what 'adult talk' to be, I have had little time for it!
On 22 Sep, 16:35, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > " The leadership meme seems to support itself well in survival and we > are not addressing this well in our discourse." > > This seeming support for leadership in your view is a stranger for me > here, Neil, considering how pathologically abhorrent an idea you have > consistently presented it as in your posts here in past. What > happened, in this late age ? > > No, this is a genuine surprise I express. Especially since a ' > collective ' leadership is largely theoretical ... yes, Athens like ! > > This is adult talk I am attempting. It seldom happens. So if doesn't > now, I wouldn't be surprised ! > > On Sep 22, 6:27 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Workers of the world were supposed to unite - sadly the employers > > did! On greed (somewhat tangentially), we are discovering links > > between emotions and how we come to 'define terms' in our arguments. > > Disgust has had a lot of attention in links to morality. Greed would > > seem to have some moderated use in putting things away for a rainy > > day. In terms of it leaving the hearts of 'people' (no doubt an > > unwanted PC point over Orn here!) I go for a democratic technology. > > Like Don I don't fear other peoples, though I'd move from dictators to > > 'hierarchies' - these (including ours) are now often 'false > > democracies'. For me, the answers lie in technology - though this > > cannot be the 'heartless form'. The leadership meme seems to support > > itself well in survival and we are not addressing this well in our > > discourse. > > > On 22 Sep, 08:41, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > “…Anyone notice certain harmonies in this stuff and the reaction of > > > Obama's modest national health plans? …” - archy > > > > Yes, much of the same revision of history along with using propaganda > > > (lies) and fear tactics by those with power. Unfortunately, the ‘rest > > > of the story’ includes: > > > > “…The Marian propagandists appealed to a yearning for peace and > > > stability. But a whole generation had grown up since Henry’s break > > > with Rome, and much of the Marian effort surely represents the > > > unseemly spectacle of men trying to catch the genie of free thought > > > and put it back in the bottle. Protestantism, certainly, was a > > > minority faith, but though the numbers who stood up to witness could > > > be counted, it was less easy to anticipate or evaluate the > > > undercurrent of strong feeling that showed itself on the execution > > > grounds. The advisers of Philip of Spain, Mary’s husband, grew > > > nervous; it was possible that public opinion would blame Philip’s > > > influence for the burnings, so perhaps, on pragmatic grounds, the > > > executions should be suspended, or held in secret? The imperial > > > ambassador told Philip that at the burning of John Rogers at > > > Smithfield in February 1555, ‘some of the onlookers wept, others > > > prayed to God to give him strength, perseverance and patience to bear > > > the pain and not to recant, others gathered the ashes and bones and > > > wrapped them up in paper to preserve them, yet others threatening the > > > bishops.’ The ambassador was afraid of popular revolt. It did not > > > happen, and there was, Duffy says, no loss of nerve on the part of > > > bishops, queen or the cardinal-archbishop. The regime had succeeded > > > with its chosen weapons of teaching, preaching and burning alive, and > > > by 1557 very few held out; most of the intransigents had gone into > > > exile or knuckled under. The parish constable of St Bride’s, Fleet > > > Street, once a strongly evangelical area, assured the authorities that > > > ‘if you say the Crowe is white, I will say so too.’…” > > > > There followed a flu epidemic that took out the powerful and elite… > > > and, as condemning as it may be, I pray for a similar result in the > > > Colonies. Perhaps the fanatics will fall to the microbe. Perhaps a new > > > tea party will not be necessary to revolt against those who control > > > the economy. Perhaps corporations will regain their status of non- > > > anthropomorphism and no longer rule those condemned and chained to > > > supporting them. Perhaps greed will leave the hearts of men everywhere > > > and we will join hands and….oh, wait, ….never mind. > > > > On Sep 21, 2:27 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > An anonymous pamphlet published in summer 1555 painted a terrifying > > > > picture of a Protestant England in which the fabric of society had > > > > been eroded, > > > > '... all good order broken, the magistrates contempned, and the people > > > > so farre divided that the father dread the childe, the marchaunt hys > > > > prentysce, the master hys man . . . Amitie and friendship was fled the > > > > realme, truth and trust was outtroden, al good maners and nurture in > > > > youth exiled, the very norishe of chastetee in maydens cast of cleane, > > > > so that what eche man liked and lusted, that he thought lawful...' > > > > > This communistic free-for-all cannot have been what people remembered > > > > of Edward’s reign. Perhaps they thought it had all happened in the > > > > next parish, or just over the hill. This was what became of England in > > > > rebellion against Catholicism and accepting the word of priests like > > > > babes. A few Protestant worthies were put to the sword, and far more > > > > innocents, in an attempt at correction. > > > > > Anyone notice certain harmonies in this stuff and the reaction of > > > > Obama's modest national health plans? The last line of the ancient > > > > text kills me - surely it cannot be that Catholic maydens were ever > > > > the epitome of chastetee, or there would never have been any practice > > > > for us Proddie lads until forced to settle down to the ice cold > > > > domesticity of one of our own! I can only hope that Che Obama gets on > > > > with collapsing the fabric of US society by letting everyone have > > > > health insurance! Marxism works in mysterious ways indeed!- Hide > > > > quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
