" There are no ideas about ... " That seems to be a very blinkered view. May be you should be looking elsewhere. There are people better than us, Neil, who can show the way forward to us !
But the point is : Do I have the idea, one that is substantial and overpoweringly clear ? Am I willing to be guided by that clarity, even if the whole universe does not see any value in it ? On Oct 25, 4:46 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > They are the kind of party that you can't really agree with Vam, but > they are also difficult to dismiss if you try to be open and fair. > Chomsky has tried to debate with them and their ilk and I have allowed > the voice in some classes, though most who get to university believe > them to be rotten. The interesting thing is that the constituency > they claim is not represented by anyone else. Politics is not about > leadership and should not be. A charismatic fascist might make it > here and there is a reaction against multiculturalism for one to take > up old gauntlets. There is no one sensible to vote for. There are no > ideas about and politics is driven by false issues such as crime as > though the only answers lie in punishment rather than in changing > society. Griffin is useless and yet having an effect - god help us if > someone like Blair turns up with his intent! > > On 24 Oct, 17:15, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I know it is an extreme right wing party, parochially obsessed with a > > past and overwhelmed with a fear for the future. We have a few here in > > India. > > > History tells me they have a life span of 20 odd years. I rejoice that > > most of us on this planet are liberal, pro - freedom, though victims > > of the same propensity for excess and dullness. We are trying to > > institutionalise the balance in our life. The constitution is a good > > tool for guiding ourselves. But the journey is just about 100 years > > old. It has taken us that long to make fun of patriotism publicly. The > > crisis - ridden bumps on the way have left us poorer, perhaps weaker, > > but more aware and hence more committed. > > > The business world acknowledges the economic value of sentiments, and > > not just in consumeristic sense, but it has not been very good at > > sharing technologies, establishing good governance processes and > > systems, monitoring, reviewing and improving. And politics still > > yields a visionary, a driven statesman or a competent leader, only > > once in an unpredictable while. > > > In other words, perfection remains an idea. We can choose to let the > > idea drive and direct our life and energies, or not. Let the future be > > of our choosing. > > > On Oct 24, 1:36 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Do you know what the BNP is Vam? > > > > On 24 Oct, 06:21, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > " ... we haven't done anything other than make matters worse ... " > > > > > This refrain in your sentiments is noticeable, Neil, ever since I've > > > > read your first post on this forum. How about joining the BNP and > > > > actually doing something about the mess, to be true to yourself ? > > > > > Or, could you critically analyse your sentiments and redress it within > > > > yourself ? Especially since history is marching right in front of > > > > your eye, like an avalanche, and your discomforts and " serious " > > > > reservations mean nothing for the future ! In which case, dump your > > > > sentiments and join in the flow. There might be a lot of goodness, > > > > happiness and freedom in that. > > > > > Yes, you may continue to feel as you do now, and spread your > > > > bitterness and timid disagreements all about you. > > > > > Perhaps, there are more choice if you were to go looking. > > > > > On Oct 24, 6:11 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Have to agree with that Francis. Our eldest daughter is leftie and > > > > > hated living in London (Hackney), saying many black and Asian people > > > > > made her feel really uncomfortable, especially Town Hall staff and > > > > > 'street blacks'. I tend to agree and my experience there is 20 years > > > > > old. Griffin hits a chord on this and it sickens me we haven't done > > > > > anything other than make matters worse since Powell. The lack of > > > > > proper mainstream argument is sickening. If this is affecting even > > > > > people like us it's really serious. Polls over the last days show > > > > > huge support in principle amongst many who would have no truck with > > > > > the BNP or even UKIP. It doesn't help to have idiots like Dianne > > > > > Abbott (Labour Hackney - kids at public school) telling us everything > > > > > is hunky-dory in multicultural London and it's only up North where > > > > > there is effective segregation where there are problems. The lying > > > > > going on is now routine. > > > > > Ian pointed out long ago that Labour has got itself into a mess with > > > > > Islam, but it has also lost any grip on what it used to stand for. > > > > > When Tories start to look preferable to me, something dire has > > > > > happened and I have to say I think Labour is now Stalinist in its > > > > > responses to criticism (and also Bushist). I've tended to regard > > > > > German politics as a bit more civilised, but I thought that of France > > > > > before worked there. > > > > > > On 23 Oct, 17:51, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I've been reading some of the press reports on Griffin on "Question > > > > > > Time" - I just don't have the stomach to watch the thing on-line. > > > > > > > The best recruiting sergeants for Griffin, his BNP whackos and other > > > > > > assorted fascoid loonies are the established parties - not just in > > > > > > Britain. They have succeeded in destroying any credibility and > > > > > > belief > > > > > > in their sincerity and integrity among western populations in > > > > > > general. > > > > > > No wonder that little people, who feel hurt, betrayed and > > > > > > hard-done-by > > > > > > by the political elites, become cannon-fodder for such simplistic, > > > > > > hate-mongering bastards. > > > > > > > Francis > > > > > > > On 23 Okt., 13:28, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > It's a given that the BBC milked all of the publicity for their > > > > > > > own > > > > > > > ends, *shrug* I don't mind that so much, it's great that he was > > > > > > > given > > > > > > > some TV time, I would expect no less in a democracy. I realy > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > even care if he garners more support, on the whole I still think > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > he is in a tiny, little, wheeny minority. > > > > > > > > Things do seem to be differant down here in London town Neil, > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > are soooo many people from all over the globe here that > > > > > > > multiculturalism is second nature to us. > > > > > > > > On 22 Oct, 21:53, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'm an over-tolerant man as you know Lee. I've actually been > > > > > > > > rather > > > > > > > > impressed by whatever-his-name is. I don't hit the pubs as > > > > > > > > often > > > > > > > > these days and it had been a few months when Peter and I met up > > > > > > > > in our > > > > > > > > 'local'. He noticed a distinct swing to the right in the > > > > > > > > conversation. I had a couple more in another after he went > > > > > > > > home and > > > > > > > > found a bunch of skinheads playing punk. The old jokes are > > > > > > > > back in > > > > > > > > fashion and some are openly saying they will vote BNP. Not > > > > > > > > been down > > > > > > > > South for some time - is the experience replicated your way? > > > > > > > > What strikes me is that even I think the BNP, EDL, UKIP line > > > > > > > > makes > > > > > > > > more sense of what people tell me they are worried about than > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > truly dead 'official politics' and media punditry. The only > > > > > > > > possible > > > > > > > > ways to vote for me are Liberal and Green, but they aren't > > > > > > > > talking > > > > > > > > about the pain being suffered. > > > > > > > > It can't be right to silence the BNP in a democracy, but I > > > > > > > > suspect > > > > > > > > they are not the real problem - this is much more to do with > > > > > > > > why no > > > > > > > > one is articulating people's real fears and genuine solutions > > > > > > > > to the > > > > > > > > mess we are in. I want to listen to the BNP and whatever > > > > > > > > effect they > > > > > > > > are having on people. Quite what I'd do if large numbers start > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > vote for them is another matter. If they are genuine democrats > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > would not abandon the ballot if in power, I think I would have > > > > > > > > to put > > > > > > > > up with them as government. This might be a pigs might fly > > > > > > > > argument, > > > > > > > > but we are already not democratic in so many ways. This may be > > > > > > > > why > > > > > > > > fascism is gaining ground. > > > > > > > > The answer to Pigsly is surely not to character assassinate him > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > advance. I dislike the BBCs use of him as advertising material > > > > > > > > too. > > > > > > > > I think he will cope rather well, perhaps as we might shine in a > > > > > > > > cricket match of the blind. Labour and the Tories have been > > > > > > > > using > > > > > > > > Goebels-like tactics for a long time. If he does manage to > > > > > > > > articulate > > > > > > > > his constituency without being racist-sexist-thuggish, he may > > > > > > > > embarrass the business as usual types Question Time usually > > > > > > > > gives > > > > > > > > floor-space to. I see none of them talking about the real lives > > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > > me. This is not to wish him well. > > > > > > > > > On 22 Oct, 10:24, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > So the big question for today is who is going to be watching > > > > > > > > > Question > > > > > > > > > Time this evening? > > > > > > > > > > Yep, me, I already have beer in and soft stuff piled up next > > > > > > > > > to my > > > > > > > > > chair(ready for throwing at the TV), I have warned the family > > > > > > > > > I may ge > > > > > > > > > a little more shouty at the box than normal. > > > > > > > > > > Man I hope the little fucker gets pieces ripped out of him, > > > > > > > > > ahhhh but > > > > > > > > > then I'm not really a violent man.......but still. > > > > > > > > > > I think it should be not only great TV (damn I'm sounding > > > > > > > > > like sombody > > > > > > > > > who has spent too long in the industry now), but hopefully > > > > > > > > > will show > > > > > > > > > the BNP for exactly what they are.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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