I was once innocent enough Vam to think the Herren only responsible for my garden pond not having fish in it. What the fascists need is those dumb enough to follow their way forward. I'd be interested to meet those who are better and are prepared not to use this as a power over others (however sagely). I have seen none of these leaders, only very sad people who have manipulated, whether Marx, Lenin, Kennedy, Bush, Churchill, Thatcher, Mitterand, Gandhi, Blair = the list is endless. There is another way available, but it ain't millennialism and it will rely on more informed communication and equality (formed by groups of people with varying abilities and problems). If you are so out of it to want me to join the BNP I really do think you've missed the point and can't get over remembered pain dished out by 'betters'.
On 25 Oct, 22:44, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > I do get your point, but I'm not showing you the way, because we are > better than you. - Hello-ooh, knock-knock, anybody at home? > > On 25 Okt., 08:36, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > " There are no ideas about ... " > > > That seems to be a very blinkered view. May be you should be looking > > elsewhere. There are people better than us, Neil, who can show the way > > forward to us ! > > > But the point is : Do I have the idea, one that is substantial and > > overpoweringly clear ? Am I willing to be guided by that clarity, > > even if the whole universe does not see any value in it ? > > > On Oct 25, 4:46 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > They are the kind of party that you can't really agree with Vam, but > > > they are also difficult to dismiss if you try to be open and fair. > > > Chomsky has tried to debate with them and their ilk and I have allowed > > > the voice in some classes, though most who get to university believe > > > them to be rotten. The interesting thing is that the constituency > > > they claim is not represented by anyone else. Politics is not about > > > leadership and should not be. A charismatic fascist might make it > > > here and there is a reaction against multiculturalism for one to take > > > up old gauntlets. There is no one sensible to vote for. There are no > > > ideas about and politics is driven by false issues such as crime as > > > though the only answers lie in punishment rather than in changing > > > society. Griffin is useless and yet having an effect - god help us if > > > someone like Blair turns up with his intent! > > > > On 24 Oct, 17:15, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I know it is an extreme right wing party, parochially obsessed with a > > > > past and overwhelmed with a fear for the future. We have a few here in > > > > India. > > > > > History tells me they have a life span of 20 odd years. I rejoice that > > > > most of us on this planet are liberal, pro - freedom, though victims > > > > of the same propensity for excess and dullness. We are trying to > > > > institutionalise the balance in our life. The constitution is a good > > > > tool for guiding ourselves. But the journey is just about 100 years > > > > old. It has taken us that long to make fun of patriotism publicly. The > > > > crisis - ridden bumps on the way have left us poorer, perhaps weaker, > > > > but more aware and hence more committed. > > > > > The business world acknowledges the economic value of sentiments, and > > > > not just in consumeristic sense, but it has not been very good at > > > sharing technologies, establishing good governance processes and > > > > systems, monitoring, reviewing and improving. And politics still > > > > yields a visionary, a driven statesman or a competent leader, only > > > > once in an unpredictable while. > > > > > In other words, perfection remains an idea. We can choose to let the > > > > idea drive and direct our life and energies, or not. Let the future be > > > > of our choosing. > > > > > On Oct 24, 1:36 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Doyou knoww what the BNP is Vam? > > > > > > On 24 Oct, 06:21, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > ... we haveen't done anything other than make matters worse ... " > > > > > > > This refrain in your sentiments is noticeable, Neil, ever since I've > > > > > > read your first post on this forum. How about joining the BNP and > > > > > > actually doing something about the mess, to be true to yourself ? > > > > > > > Or, could you critically analyse your sentiments and redress it > > > > > > within > > > > > > yourself ? Especially since history is marching right in front of > > > > > > your eye, like an avalanche, and your discomforts and " serious " > > > > > > reservations mean nothing for the future ! In which case, dump your > > > > > > sentiments and join in the flow. There might be a lot of goodness, > > > > > > happiness and freedom in that. > > > > > > > Yes, you may continue to feel as you do now, and spread your > > > > > > bitterness and timid disagreements all about you. > > > > > > > Perhaps, there are more choice if you were to go looking. > > > > > > > On Oct 24, 6:11 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Have to agree with tha Franciss. Our eldest daughter is leftie > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > hated living in London (Hackney), saying many black and Aian > > > > > > > peeople > > > > > > > made her feel really uncomfortable, especially Town Hall staff and > > > > > > > 'street blacks'. I tend to agree and my experience there is 20 > > > > > > > years > > > > > > > old. Griffin hits a chord on this and it sickens me we haven't > > > > > > > done > > > > > > > anything other than make matters worse since Powell. The lack of > > > > > > > proper mainstream argument is sickening. If this is affecting > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > people like us it's really serious. Polls over the last days show > > > > > > > huge support in principle amongst many who would have no truck > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > the BNP or even UKIP. It doesn't help to have idiots like Dianne > > > > > > > Abbott (Labour Hackney - kids at public school) telling us > > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > is hunky-dory in multicultural London and it's only up North where > > > > > > > there is effective segregation where there are problems. The > > > > > > > lying > > > > > > > going on is now routine. > > > > > > > Ian pointed out long ago that Labour has got itself into a mess > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > Islam, but it has also lost any grip on what it used to stand for. > > > > > > > When Tories start to look preferable to me, something dire has > > > > > > > happened and I have to say I think Labour is now Stalinist in its > > > > > > > responses to criticism (and also Bushist). I've tended to regard > > > > > > > German politics as a bit more civilised, but I though that oof > > > > > > > France > > > > > > > before worked there. > > > > > > > > On 23 Oct, 17:51, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I've been reading some of the press rports on GGriffin on > > > > > > > > "Question > > > > > > > > Time" - I just don't have the stomach to watch the thing > > > > > > > > on-line. > > > > > > > > > The best recruiting sergeants for Griffin, his BNP whackos and > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > assorted fascoid loonies are the established parties - not just > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > Brritain. They have succeeded in destoying aany credibility and > > > > > belief > > > > > > > > in their sincerity and integrity among western populations in > > > > > > > > general. > > > > > > > > No wonder that little people, who feel hurt, betrayed and > > > > > > > > hard-done-by > > > > > > > > by the political elites, become cannon-fodder for such > > > > > > > > simplistic, > > > > > > > > hate-mongering bastards. > > > > > > > > > Francis > > > > > > > > > On 23 Okt., 13:28, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It's a given that the BBC milked all of the publicity or > > > > > > > > > their own > > > > > > > > > ends, *shrug* I don't mind that so much, it's great that he > > > > > > > > > was given > > > > > > > > > some TV time, I would expect no less in a democracy. I realy > > > > > > > > > don't > > > > > > > > > even care if he garners more support, on the whole I still > > > > > > > > > think that > > > > > > > > > he is i a tiiny, little, wheeny minority. > > > > > > > > > > Things do seem to be differant down here in London town Neil, > > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > aresoooo many people from all over the globe here that > > > > > > > > multiculturalism is second nature to us. > > > > > > > > > On 222 Oct, 21:53, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I'm an over-tolerant man as you know Lee. I've actually > > > > > > > > > > been rathe > > > > > > > > impressed by whatever-his-name is. I don't hit the pubs as often > > > > > > > > > > these days and it had been a few months when Peter and I > > > > > > > > > > met up in our > > > > > > > > > > 'local'. He noticed a distinct swing to the right in the > > > > > > > > > > conversation. I had a couple more in another after he went > > > > > > > > > > home and > > > > > > > > > > found a bunch of skinheads playing punk. The old jokes are > > > > > > > > > > back in > > > > > > > > > > fashion and some are openly saying they will vote BNP. Not > > > > > > > > > > been down > > > > > > > > > > South for some time - is the experience replicated your way? > > > > > > > > > > What strikes me is that even I think the BNP, EDL, UKIP > > > > > > > > > > line makes > > > > > > > > > > more sense of what people tell me they are worried about > > > > > > > > > > than our > > > > > > > > > > truly dead 'official politics' and media punditry. The > > > > > > > > > > only possible > > > > > > > > > > ways to vote for me are Liberal and Green, but they aren't > > > > > > > > > > talking > > > > > > > > > > about the pain being suffered. > > > > > > > > > > It can't be right to silence the BNP in a democracy, but I > > > > > > > > > > suspect > > > > > > > > > > they are not the real problem - this is much more to do > > > > > > > > > > with why no > > > > > > > > > > one is articulating people's real fears and genuine > > > > > > > > > > solutions to the > > > > > > > > > > mess we are in. I want to listen to the BNP and whatever > > > > > > > > > > effect they > > > > > > > > > > are having on people. Quite what I'd do if large numbers > > > > > > > > > > start to > > > > > > > > > > vote for them is another matter. If they are genuine > > > > > > > > > > democrats and > > > > > > > > > > would not abandon the ballot if in power, I think I would > > > > > > > > > > have to put > > > > > > > > > > up with them as government. This might be a pigs might fly > > > > > > > > > > argument, > > > > > > > > > > but we are already not democratic in so many ways. This > > > > > > > > > > may be why > > > > > > > > > > fascism is gaining ground. > > > > > > > > > > The answer to Pigsly is surely not to character assassinate > > > > > > > > > > him in > > > > > > > > > > advance. I dislike the BBCs use of him as advertising > > > > > > > > > > material too. > > > > > > > > > I t think he will cope rather well, perhaps as we might shine > > > > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > > > cricket tch h of the blind. Labour and the Tories have > > > > > > > > > > been using > > > > > > > > > > Goebels-like tactics for a long time. If he does manage to > > > > > > > > > > articulate > > > > > > > > > > his constituency without being racist-sexist-thuggish, he > > > > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > > embarrass the business as usual types Question > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
