I cannot believe in a God that allows evil so I guess I am in league with Dante's view- that there is indeed a Hell and a Heaven and they may well exist on earth in the consequences of our actions. This would explain many of the human problems that plague society. I know I have seen these outcomes though they may take years to emerge- and they present an elegant logic, all their own.// Church/religious law and Divine Laws may not always jibe because the former are instituted and run by men who have limited or faulty vision. Nevertheless, there are moral laws beyond the reach of mere mortals. I am not saying that humans reach perfection- even Mother Teresa had doubts- as we have doubts and must struggle and wrestle with our souls.
On Nov 23, 4:51 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > Heh I remember a few years back when I mentioned this very thing, you > know the immenance of God pervading throughtout the creation, and our > young and then much more fiesty Ian, asked, does that include evil, > and shit and murder? > > I answerered well yes how could it not? > > Heresy, well isn't that when a relgious establishment says, no what > you say does not agree with the accepted doctrine of our particular > faith! > > So all-in-all a rather meaningless term. > > On 23 Nov, 04:36, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Then God would also be evil. I believe that is a heresy. > > > On Nov 22, 3:24 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I think it starts with the realization the God is the entirety of > > > everything. People spend years meditating trying to accomplish this simple > > > concept. > > > > Marco you are beginning to sound like a hindu compartalmentlizing all the > > > aspect of God so they can understand Brahman > > > Allan > > > > On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:49 PM, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Indeed, but the trick is in seeing this huh. > > > > > On 18 Nov, 11:35, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > LOL but Lee God is in everything! > > > > > Allan > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Heh I of course realise that as my particular faith emphasises > > > > > > seeing > > > > > > God in everything. > > > > > > > On 17 Nov, 17:28, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On 17 Nov, 16:39, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hah My dear Rigsy I swear to your right now that it is complelty > > > > the > > > > > > > > other way around for me. > > > > > > > > > My wife has made a honest man out of me, she veritably saved me > > > > from > > > > > > > > myself, and for that I owe her everything. > > > > > > > > Your debt is to God alone, as He worked THROUGH your wife to do > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > things. It's OK, though, if you thank your wife, as God gets all > > > > > > > thanks through us as well, even if we don't realise it. ;-) > > > > > > > > > On 17 Nov, 16:04, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In a way, you do- by making an honest woman out of a bedmate > > > > > > > > > and > > > > all > > > > > > > > > the stuff you will need to provide plus kids, etc. But the > > > > > > > > > woman > > > > must > > > > > > > > > be calculating to begin with. Somehow, I missed that class but > > > > find > > > > > > > > > the whole thing pretty amusing at this point in life. > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 17, 9:57 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Haha my dad tells me that we men always pay for sex. > > > > > > > > > > > Now now that's my dad not me you understand? > > > > > > > > > > > On 17 Nov, 15:41, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think all women should be paid for sex? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 17, 8:43 am, archytas <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you lose a few slates from your roof while you had > > > > turned > > > > > > into a > > > > > > > > > > > > motel Slip? > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, it's immoral to argue from holy text in any kind > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > fundamentalist manner. We could argue we have been > > > > > > > > > > > > trapped > > > > in > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > kind of mistaken argument and need to break out of it. > > > > Science > > > > > > > > > > > > probably does and at least allows things to be put to > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > test. > > > > > > Like > > > > > > > > > > > > Slip I have something of a penchant for being > > > > > > > > > > > > ministered to > > > > by > > > > > > women, > > > > > > > > > > > > though as yet have not experienced being as a motel yet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 17 Nov, 12:42, Pat <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 16 Nov, 17:03, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jesus said 'Our > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Father...', not 'My Father...' Pat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes in some context such as: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mat 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > before > > > > men, > > > > > > that they > > > > > > > > > > > > > > may see your good deeds and praise your FATHER in > > > > heaven. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mat 6:9 "This, then, is how you should pray: "'Our > > > > FATHER > > > > > > in heaven, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hallowed be your name, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But then again: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord,' > > > > will > > > > > > enter the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > FATHER who is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in heaven. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mat 10:32 "Whoever acknowledges me before men, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > acknowledge him before my FATHER in heaven. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mat 10:33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will > > > > disown > > > > > > him before > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my FATHER in heaven. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Working on the Sabbath: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John 5:17 Jesus said to them, "My FATHER is always > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at > > > > his > > > > > > work to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this very day, and I, too, am working." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John 8:53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He > > > > > > died, and so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did the prophets. Who do you think you are?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John 8:54 Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my > > > > glory > > > > > > means > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing. My FATHER, WHOM YOU CLAIM AS YOUR GOD, is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > one > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > > > > glorifies me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are more but remember when Mary and Joseph > > > > > > > > > > > > > > found > > > > > > Jesus in the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple, Mary asked "Son, why have you treated us > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like > > > > this? > > > > > > Your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > father and I have been anxiously searching for you." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jesus replied, Luke 2 49 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn't > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > know I had to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be in my Father's house?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And of course the Garden of Gethsemane: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > me: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. But I note there were no quotes used > > > > from > > > > > > The Gospel > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Mark, which is the oldest and, therefore, > > > > > > > > > > > > > probably(!) > > > > the > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > > > > > > reliable for quotes of Jesus. Are there any quotes in > > > > Mark > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jesus uses 'my Father', as Matthew was based on Mark? > > > > > > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > not, then we > > > > > > > > > > > > > know those "my Father"s in Matthew were added and any > > > > Gospel > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > that (Luke and John), quite likely, would/could have > > > > added > > > > > > even more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luke was written by Paul's close friend and would > > > > naturally > > > > > > reflect > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul's 'spin' on Jesus. The most surprising is > > > > > > > > > > > > > Matthew. > > > > The > > > > > > 7:21 > > > > > > > > > > > > > quote at least acknowledges that it is the Will of God > > > > that > > > > > > matters > > > > > > > > > > > > > and not whether or not one calls Jesus 'Lord'. The > > > > 10:32-33 > > > > > > quote, > > > > > > > > > > > > > though, seems a bit out of kilter with the 7:21 > > > > > > > > > > > > > quote, as > > > > it > > > > > > implies > > > > > > > > > > > > > that, if an individual acknowledges Jesus (in what > > > > > > > > > > > > > way? > > > > As > > > > > > 'Lord' or > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Son of God'?), Jesus will then acknowledge (again, in > > > > what > > > > > > way?) that > > > > > > > > > > > > > individual to God, but, because of the 7:21 line, that > > > > may > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > actually help an individual in any way. So what's the > > > > point > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > acknowledgement? Or was it just a simple way of > > > > > > > > > > > > > subtly > > > > > > injecting > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pauline theology? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then there is the ongoing controversy concerning the > > > > > > "Trinity". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've never come across any scripture that indicated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > "Mother in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Heaven" therefore excluding any feminine aspect of > > > > God. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No right-minded Jew would envisage a trinity, as God > > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > One > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > Judaism. Always has been, always will be. The > > > > > > > > > > > > > Trinity > > > > was > > > > > > another > > > > > > > > > > > > > compromise to bring 'pagans'/polytheists into the > > > > > > > > > > > > > Faith > > > > by > > > > > > making > > > > > > > > > > > > > Christianity more polytheistic. Which, of course, is > > > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > complete > > > > > > > > > > > > > misunderstanding of Judaism and/or Jesus' teachings > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > anathema to > > > > > > > > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However in Luke 8:1-3 it clearly shows that Jesus > > > > traveled > > > > > > about not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only with his disciples but also with women. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luke 8:1-3 After this, Jesus traveled about from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one > > > > town > > > > > > and village > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to another, proclaiming the good news of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kingdom of > > > > > > God. The > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Twelve were with him, and also some women who had > > > > > > > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > cured of evil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whom > > > > > > seven demons > > > > > > > > > > > > > > had come out; Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > Herod’s > > > > > > > > > > > > > > household; Susanna; and many others. These women > > > > > > > > > > > > > > were > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=.
