God does allow free will,l as far as I know, though He knows what the outcome will be. That is a bit of a tangle for our minds to grasp however. I think it is like parents who allow their children to learn consequences the hard way sometimes; besides, it would not be much of a god if we were forced to obey or love, would it?//Anyway, I need breakfast. Happily, I can tell my daughter I won my bets with her last night- Joyce Carol Oates remarried 10 months after her husband's death and the 2 pound round of Brie I bought yesterday is Pasteurized- not a bad start to the day, Lee! See you later.
On Nov 23, 7:03 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > That is somthing that I hear quite offten, and whilst I certianly do > understand the sentiments, the reasoning sorta throws me. > > I cannot belive in a God that allows evil. > > So you can belive in a God that denies free will? Yet the denying of > free will itself, can that not be seen as an evil act by God? > > I don't know it tends to go around and around for me, what I can say > for sure though, is belive in whatever God you want, or belive in none > at all, that is your choice and I would not wish to convince you one > way of the other. > > On 23 Nov, 12:21, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I cannot believe in a God that allows evil so I guess I am in league > > with Dante's view- that there is indeed a Hell and a Heaven and they > > may well exist on earth in the consequences of our actions. This would > > explain many of the human problems that plague society. I know I have > > seen these outcomes though they may take years to emerge- and they > > present an elegant logic, all their own.// Church/religious law and > > Divine Laws may not always jibe because the former are instituted and > > run by men who have limited or faulty vision. Nevertheless, there are > > moral laws beyond the reach of mere mortals. I am not saying that > > humans reach perfection- even Mother Teresa had doubts- as we have > > doubts and must struggle and wrestle with our souls. > > > On Nov 23, 4:51 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Heh I remember a few years back when I mentioned this very thing, you > > > know the immenance of God pervading throughtout the creation, and our > > > young and then much more fiesty Ian, asked, does that include evil, > > > and shit and murder? > > > > I answerered well yes how could it not? > > > > Heresy, well isn't that when a relgious establishment says, no what > > > you say does not agree with the accepted doctrine of our particular > > > faith! > > > > So all-in-all a rather meaningless term. > > > > On 23 Nov, 04:36, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Then God would also be evil. I believe that is a heresy. > > > > > On Nov 22, 3:24 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I think it starts with the realization the God is the entirety of > > > > > everything. People spend years meditating trying to accomplish this > > > > > simple > > > > > concept. > > > > > > Marco you are beginning to sound like a hindu compartalmentlizing all > > > > > the > > > > > aspect of God so they can understand Brahman > > > > > Allan > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:49 PM, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Indeed, but the trick is in seeing this huh. > > > > > > > On 18 Nov, 11:35, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > LOL but Lee God is in everything! > > > > > > > Allan > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Heh I of course realise that as my particular faith emphasises > > > > > > > > seeing > > > > > > > > God in everything. > > > > > > > > > On 17 Nov, 17:28, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 17 Nov, 16:39, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hah My dear Rigsy I swear to your right now that it is > > > > > > > > > > complelty > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > other way around for me. > > > > > > > > > > > My wife has made a honest man out of me, she veritably > > > > > > > > > > saved me > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > myself, and for that I owe her everything. > > > > > > > > > > Your debt is to God alone, as He worked THROUGH your wife to > > > > > > > > > do those > > > > > > > > > things. It's OK, though, if you thank your wife, as God gets > > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > thanks through us as well, even if we don't realise it. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > On 17 Nov, 16:04, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > In a way, you do- by making an honest woman out of a > > > > > > > > > > > bedmate and > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > > the stuff you will need to provide plus kids, etc. But > > > > > > > > > > > the woman > > > > > > must > > > > > > > > > > > be calculating to begin with. Somehow, I missed that > > > > > > > > > > > class but > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > > > > the whole thing pretty amusing at this point in life. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 17, 9:57 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Haha my dad tells me that we men always pay for sex. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now now that's my dad not me you understand? > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 17 Nov, 15:41, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think all women should be paid for sex? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 17, 8:43 am, archytas <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you lose a few slates from your roof while you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > turned > > > > > > > > into a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > motel Slip? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, it's immoral to argue from holy text in any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kind of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fundamentalist manner. We could argue we have been > > > > > > > > > > > > > > trapped > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kind of mistaken argument and need to break out of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it. > > > > > > Science > > > > > > > > > > > > > > probably does and at least allows things to be put > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to the > > > > > > test. > > > > > > > > Like > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Slip I have something of a penchant for being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ministered to > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > women, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though as yet have not experienced being as a motel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 17 Nov, 12:42, Pat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 16 Nov, 17:03, Slip Disc <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jesus said 'Our > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Father...', not 'My Father...' Pat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes in some context such as: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mat 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > before > > > > > > men, > > > > > > > > that they > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > may see your good deeds and praise your FATHER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > heaven. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mat 6:9 "This, then, is how you should pray: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "'Our > > > > > > FATHER > > > > > > > > in heaven, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hallowed be your name, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But then again: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord,' > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > enter the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will of my > > > > > > > > FATHER who is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in heaven. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mat 10:32 "Whoever acknowledges me before men, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I will > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > acknowledge him before my FATHER in heaven. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mat 10:33 But whoever disowns me before men, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > disown > > > > > > > > him before > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my FATHER in heaven. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Working on the Sabbath: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John 5:17 Jesus said to them, "My FATHER is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > always at > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > work to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this very day, and I, too, am working." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John 8:53 Are you greater than our father > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Abraham? He > > > > > > > > died, and so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did the prophets. Who do you think you are?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > John 8:54 Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my > > > > > > glory > > > > > > > > means > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nothing. My FATHER, WHOM YOU CLAIM AS YOUR GOD, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is the > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > glorifies me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are more but remember when Mary and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joseph found > > > > > > > > Jesus in the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > temple, Mary asked "Son, why have you treated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > us like > > > > > > this? > > > > > > > > Your > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > father and I have been anxiously searching for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jesus replied, Luke 2 49 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Why were you searching for me?" he asked. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Didn't you > > > > > > > > know I had to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be in my Father's house?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And of course the Garden of Gethsemane: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pass from > > > > > > me: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. But I note there were no quotes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > used > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > The Gospel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of Mark, which is the oldest and, therefore, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > probably(!) > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > most > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > reliable for quotes of Jesus. Are there any > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quotes in > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jesus uses 'my Father', as Matthew was based on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark? If > > > > > > > > not, then we > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know those "my Father"s in Matthew were added and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > Gospel > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that (Luke and John), quite likely, would/could > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > added > > > > > > > > even more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Luke was written by Paul's close friend and would > > > > > > naturally > > > > > > > > reflect > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Paul's 'spin' on Jesus. The most surprising is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Matthew. > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > 7:21 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quote at least acknowledges that it is the Will > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of God > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > matters > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and not whether or not one calls Jesus 'Lord'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The > > > > > > 10:32-33 > > > > > > > > quote, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though, seems a bit out of kilter with the 7:21 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quote, as > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > implies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that, if an individual acknowledges Jesus (in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what way? > > > > > > As > > > > > > > > 'Lord' or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Son of God'?), Jesus will then acknowledge > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (again, in > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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