I don't see the importance in defining the difference there. On Jan 14, 11:34 am, edward mason <[email protected]> wrote: > To have a religion (a product of culture) is to have a leader to lead > to God. Unnatural in a relationship. For those of you who are married > imagine needing a leader there. How will you define a difference > there? > > > > On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On 14 Jan, 16:58, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Makes a lot of sense Pat. ;-] > > > Cheers, mate! I do try. But it's my "life's work", as it were; so I > > want it to be as sound as possible. Although, I know that, even > > though I speak the truth, many people will be VERY upset by that. > > But, that, I'm afraid, goes with the role. ;-) > > >> On Jan 14, 7:21 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > On 14 Jan, 08:42, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > The world seems more religious than ever these days. > > >> > > Across the Middle East, fervent forms of Islam are growing more > >> > > popular and more politically active. Muslim nations that were somewhat > >> > > secularized 40 years ago - like Lebanon and Iran - are now teeming > >> > > with fundamentalism. In Turkey and Egypt, increasing numbers of women > >> > > are turning to the veil as an overt manifestation of reinvigorated > >> > > religious commitment. But it isn't just in the Muslim world that > >> > > religion is thriving. From Brazil to El Salvador, Protestant > >> > > evangelicalism is spreading with great success, instilling a spirited, > >> > > holy zeal throughout Latin America. Pentecostalism is proliferating, > >> > > too - vigorously - and not only throughout Latin America, but in > >> > > Africa and even, to a lesser extent, China. And many nations of the > >> > > former Soviet Union, which had atheism imposed upon them for decades, > >> > > have emerged from the communist era with their faith not only intact, > >> > > but strong and vibrant. Here in the United States, religion is > >> > > definitely alive and well. In terms of church attendance and belief in > >> > > God, Jesus, and the Bible, religion in the United States is stronger > >> > > and more robust than in most other developed democracies. > > >> > > In sum, from Nebraska to Nepal, from Georgia to Guatemala, and from > >> > > Utah to Uganda, humans all over the globe are vigorously praising > >> > > various deities; regularly attending services at churches, temples, > >> > > and mosques; persistently studying sacred texts; dutifully performing > >> > > holy rites; energetically carrying out spiritual rituals; soberly > >> > > defending the world from sin; piously fasting; and enthusiastically > >> > > praying and then praying some more, singing, praising, and loving this > >> > > or that savior, prophet, or God. > > >> > > But that is not occurring everywhere. I am referring to two nations in > >> > > particular, Denmark and Sweden, which are probably the least religious > >> > > countries in the world, and possibly in the history of the world. > >> > > Amidst all this vibrant global piety - atop the vast swelling sea of > >> > > sacredness - Denmark and Sweden float along like small, content, > >> > > durable dinghies of secular life, where most people are nonreligious > >> > > and don't worship Jesus or Vishnu, don't revere sacred texts, don't > >> > > pray, and don't give much credence to the essential dogmas of the > >> > > world's great faiths. > > >> > > In clean and green Scandinavia, few people speak of God, few people > >> > > spend much time thinking about theological matters, and although their > >> > > media in recent years has done an unusually large amount of reporting > >> > > on religion, even that is offered as an attempt to grapple with and > >> > > make sense of a strange foreign phenomenon out there in the wider > >> > > world that refuses to disappear, a phenomenon that takes on such dire > >> > > significance for everyone - except, well, for Danes and Swedes. > > >> > > What are societies like when faith in God is minimal, church > >> > > attendance is drastically low, and religion is a distinctly muted and > >> > > marginal aspect of everyday life? > > >> > > Many people assume that religion is what keeps people moral, that a > >> > > society without God would be hell on earth: rampant with immorality, > >> > > full of evil, and teeming with depravity. But that doesn't seem to be > >> > > the case for Scandinavians in those two countries. Although they may > >> > > have relatively high rates of petty crime and burglary, and although > >> > > these crime rates have been on the rise in recent decades, their > >> > > overall rates of violent crime - including murder, aggravated assault, > >> > > and rape - are among the lowest on earth. Yet the majority of Danes > >> > > and Swedes do not believe that God is "up there," keeping diligent > >> > > tabs on their behavior, slating the good for heaven and the wicked for > >> > > hell. Most Danes and Swedes don't believe that sin permeates the > >> > > world, and that only Jesus, the Son of God, who died for their sins, > >> > > can serve as a remedy. In fact, most Danes and Swedes don't even > >> > > believe in the notion of "sin." > > >> > > So the typical Dane or Swede doesn't believe all that much in God. And > >> > > simultaneously, they don't commit much murder. But aren't they a dour, > >> > > depressed lot, all the same? Not according to Ruut Veenhoven, > >> > > professor emeritus of social conditions for human happiness at Erasmus > >> > > University Rotterdam. Veenhoven is a leading authority on worldwide > >> > > levels of happiness from country to country. He recently ranked 91 > >> > > nations on an international happiness scale, basing his research on > >> > > cumulative scores from numerous worldwide surveys. According to his > >> > > calculations, the country that leads the globe - ranking No. 1 in > >> > > terms of its residents' overall level of happiness - is little, > >> > > peaceful, and relatively godless Denmark. > > >> > > The connection between religion - or the lack thereof - and societal > >> > > health is admittedly complex. It is difficult to definitively > >> > > establish that secularism is always good for society and religion > >> > > always bad. However, the often posited opposite claim is equally > >> > > difficult to substantiate: that secularism is always bad for a society > >> > > and religion always good. To be sure, in some instances, religion can > >> > > be a strong and positive ingredient in establishing societal health, > >> > > prosperity, and well-being. And when considering what factors > >> > > contribute to the making of a good society, religion can be a positive > >> > > force. > > >> > > Here in the United States, for example, religious ideals often serve > >> > > as a beneficial counterbalance against the cutthroat brand of > >> > > individualism that can be so rampant and dominating. Religious > >> > > congregations in America serve as community centers, counseling > >> > > providers, and day-care sites. And a significant amount of research > >> > > has shown that moderately religious Americans report greater > >> > > subjective well-being and life satisfaction, greater marital > >> > > satisfaction, better family cohesion, and fewer symptoms of depression > >> > > than the nonreligious. Historically, a proliferation of religious > >> > > devotion, faith in God, and reliance on the Bible has sometimes been a > >> > > determining factor in establishing schools for children, creating > >> > > universities, building hospitals for the sick and homes for the > >> > > homeless, taking care of orphans and the elderly, resisting > >> > > oppression, establishing law and order, and developing democracy. > > >> > > In other instances, however, religion may not have such positive > >> > > societal effects. It can often be one of the main sources of tension, > >> > > violence, poverty, oppression, inequality, and disorder in a given > >> > > society. A quick perusal of the state of the world will reveal that > >> > > widespread faith in God or strong religious sentiment in a given > >> > > country does not necessarily ensure societal health. After all, many > >> > > of the most religious and faithful nations on earth are simultaneously > >> > > among the most dangerous and destitute. Conversely, a widespread lack > >> > > of faith in God or very low levels of religiosity in a given country > >> > > does not necessarily spell societal ruin. The fact is, the majority of > >> > > the most irreligious democracies are among the most prosperous and > >> > > successful nations on earth. > > >> > > Just to be perfectly clear here: I am not arguing that the admirably > >> > > high level of societal health in Scandinavia is directly caused by the > >> > > low levels of religiosity. Although one could certainly make such a > >> > > case - arguing that a minimal focus on God and the afterlife, and a > >> > > stronger focus on solving problems of daily life in a rational, > >> > > secular manner have led to positive, successful societal outcomes in > >> > > Scandinavia - that is not the argument I wish to develop here. Rather, > >> > > I simply wish to soberly counter the widely touted assertion that > >> > > without religion, society is doomed. > > >> > > If you can smell my ax starting to grind here, your nostrils are in > >> > > good working order. The claim that without religion, society is doomed > >> > > deserves to be challenged because, aside from being poor social > >> > > science, it is a highly political claim that is regularly promulgated > >> > > by some of America's most popular and most influential Christian > >> > > conservatives. Those individuals do not represent or speak for the > >> > > majority of believers in America, but together they do constitute a > >> > > formidable and uniquely zealous chorus that reaches the hearts and > >> > > minds of millions of people on a regular basis. > > >> > > I am referring, for instance, to Pat Robertson, the successful > >> > > televangelist and founder of the Christian Coalition, who regularly > >> > > condemns secularism. And Ann Coulter, the Christian conservative media > >> > > pundit, who has written in one of her > > ... > > read more »
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