In partial response to Neil’s post in the topic “Science” I present the following. Since doing so there might be construed as hijacking that thread, I’ve started a new thread in the spirit of Twirlip’s search for “Wisdom”. Herein will also be found echos from the topic on reincarnation.
As tedious and tiring as it may appear, for those new to the group, I have no problem at all with ‘evidence’. . . none at all. What is perhaps suggested by the phrase ‘dogma of evidence’ is the current day meme that our epistemology is *just* to be based on an ontologically unfounded notion of evidence or even the possibility thereof. As human beings, ‘we’ are so much more than rational musings and analytical thinking. And, any attempt to divorce our apparently differing instincts and methods of being one from another in and of itself is a failure in understanding the being-as-such…and any result from such exercises distorts what most hold as reality even more than pure reliance on the senses alone does. For any sort of knowing to be full and complete, to repeat, no aspect of being can be left out. And, as to non-dogmatism being a type of dogma…of course it can be. Any attachment to a thought by definition is dogma…leaving no room for change. This is part of the beauty of the ancient mantra found in the Heart Sutra: Tadyatha gate, gate para, gate parasam, gate…bodhi svaha. http://www.purifymind.com/HeartSutraPra.htm My teacher translates it a little differently, but the truth is there. Further, Nagarjuna’s “Mahayanavimsaka - Adoration to the Three Treasures”, for those who can get past the use of the term adoration has much to be said about what is, what is not, …that there is neither being nor not-being nor both nor neither. The following treatises have much to say and do so as well as any words can do. http://members.optushome.com.au/davidquinn000/Buddhist%20Writings/NagarjunaWisdom.htm I find it so profound that even though it may attract ridicule, I’ll copy/paste the first part here now. 1 I bow down to the all-powerful Buddha Whose mind is free of attachment, Who, in his compassion and wisdom, Has taught the inexpressible. 2 In truth there is no birth - And thus no cessation or liberation; The Buddha is like the sky And all beings have that nature. 3 Neither Samsara nor Nirvana exist. All things originate from their conditions With an intrinsic face of void - The object of ultimate awareness. 4 The nature of all things Appears like a reflection, Pure and naturally quiescent, With a non-dual identity of suchness. 5 The common mind imagines a self Where there is nothing at all, And from this arise emotional states - Happiness, suffering, and equanimity. 6 The six states of being in Samsara, The happiness of heaven, The suffering of hell, Are all false creations, figments of mind. 7 Likewise the ideas of bad action causing suffering, Old age, disease and death, And the idea that virtue leads to happiness, Are mere ideas, unreal notions. 8 Like an artist frightened By the devil he paints, The sufferer in Samsara Is terrified by his own imagination. 9 Like a man caught in quicksands Thrashing and struggling about, So beings drown In the mess of their own thoughts. 10 Mistaking fantasy for reality Causes an experience of suffering; Mind is poisoned by interpretations Of the nature of objects. 11 Dissolving figment and fantasy With a mind of compassionate insight, Remain in perfect awareness In order to help all beings. 12 By developing unsurpassable bodhi, One should become a Buddha. A Buddha is a friend of the world, Being freed from the bondage of false notions. 13 Knowing the relativity of all, The ultimate truth is always seen; Dismissing the idea of beginning, middle and end The flow is seen as Emptiness. 14 So all samsara and nirvana is seen as it is - Empty and insubstantial, Naked and changeless, Eternally quiescent and illumined. 15 As the figments of a dream Dissolve upon waking, So the confusion of Samsara Fades away in enlightenment. 16 Idealising things of no substance As eternal, substantial and satisfying, Shrouding them in a fog of desire The samsaric round of existence arises. 17 The nature of beings is unborn Yet commonly beings are conceived to exist; Both beings and their ideas Are false beliefs. 18 It is nothing but an artifice of mind This birth into an illusory becoming, Into a world of good and evil action With good or bad rebirth to follow. 19 When the wheel of mind ceases to turn All things come to an end. There is nothing inherently substantial And all things are utterly pure. 20 Who can reach the other side of samsara, Which is full of the water of false notions? How can these false notions arise in a man Who thoroughly knows this world? Of course, if the cultural and perhaps perceived theological trappings offend, merely look at the essence. As you imply Neil, science is not objective …all protestations aside. And, ‘it’ is but one aspect of consciousness and in no way is ‘outside’ nor separate from same. So, as apparently useful as is focusing attention upon small aspects of reality can be and is, to ignore or even worse to reject the whole (call it ‘the One’ if one must) results in a broken epistemological praxis. So, when it comes to any search for social justice or similar ‘good’ use of science, waiting for ‘the light’ until *afterwards* seems to be putting the horse before the cart. And, while ‘we’ are using such tools, "...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. " ~ Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Ghandi What do you think?
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