Whilst you are 'seeking here and seeking there' the facts have been neglected. Mr. Hussein was involved in a punishment beating some minutes after the burglars fled, and was not acting in self-defence, causing brain damage to the "victim". This said, it would have been a public service to administer the coup de grace to the scumbag, who has not blown out his colleagues or suffered other justice of import and continued his crime career. There was also a 'Muslim Mobbing' aspect of the offence. I suspect the real questions lie in the arena of the sad state of British justice.
On 22 Jan, 17:19, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > On 22 Jan, 14:16, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Hey Pat, > > > Traditionlay when we quote from Guru Granth Sahib we include the whole > > shabad so as to get the full meaning rather than cheery pick a small > > couple of lines that may seemingly support whatever point we wish to > > make. > > > So here is the whole shabad from which you get these words. > > > 'O Nanak, it is written that you shall obey the Hukam of His Command, > > and walk in the Way of His Will. > > By His Command, bodies are created; His Command cannot be described. > > By His Command, souls come into being; by His Command, glory and > > greatness are obtained. > > By His Command, some are high and some are low; by His Written > > Command, pain and pleasure are obtained. > > Some, by His Command, are blessed and forgiven; others, by His > > Command, wander aimlessly forever. > > Everyone is subject to His Command; no one is beyond His Command. > > O Nanak, one who understands His Command, does not speak in ego. ' > > > It must be noted that the Punjabi word 'hukam' translates into English > > as 'command' > > > So when we are told to obey the command of his command what does this > > mean? > > > Hukam here is used as command(orders), whilst the word command here > > reperesents not his command(or orders) to us but his will, his > > creative power(amongst other things). > > > So then when we read this shabad we see that we are in fact being > > asked surrender our own will in favour of that of God.(Obey the hukam > > of his command) > > > We are told that by his will(perhaps even word) the universe came into > > being, including all that is physical and all that is spirtual(by his > > command bodies and souls are created) > > > We see also that by his will(word) the law of karma was created, this > > is amongst Gods greatest of gifts to us, as it assures that each and > > every one of us has chance upon chance to meet God. > > > And finaly we are told that nobody exists that has not been created by > > his will(word) and that those who realise this can not speak in ego, > > as thery are the ones who have become Gurmukh(God minded), and thus > > have surredered they will upon God. > > Thus, by definition, a Gurmurkh, one who has surrendered their will > to the will of God, is not much different from a Muslim who, by > definition, has submitted to the will of Allah, as a Muslim has > realised that only the will of Allah is of any import. Since all > these things occur by God's will, where is their any freedom for > ours? Certainly there mustn't be for the Gurmurkh, as they have > realised that they must surrender to His will. I still think the > whole quoted passage supports my claim. As well as your further > expounding upon it does. > On another note, the word 'command' is VERY much like the ORIGINAL > Christian concept of the Logos, as all came into being via the Logos > (word of God). It all synchs up rather nicely. Cheers for that and > have a great weekend!! > > > > > eOn 22 Jan, 13:35, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 22 Jan, 10:17, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Forgive me my fellow Eye'ers, I obviously have this stuck in my head > > > > at the moment and it needs to be addressed. > > > > > On GMTV this morning we had an ex burglar talking about what he feels > > > > over the initial arrest, sentancing and subsiquent reduction of > > > > prision term for a Mr Munir Hussain (http://www.gm.tv/articles/44308- > > > > burglars-prosecution-jailed.html). Who chased burglars out of his > > > > house and administered to one of them a bloody good hiding. > > > > > The ex burglar was talking about choice vs instinctual behaviour, > > > > whilst unsupprisingly the majority of calls, texts and emails into > > > > GMTV on this subject were all for a lessening of the law which > > > > restricts us to 'reasonable force' in defence of our homes or loved > > > > ones. To my mind a restriction from 'reasonable force' can only mean > > > > allowing 'unreasonable force' so I guess you can say that I do not > > > > agree with this one at all. > > > > > However although I'm sure that we will get into that one here, this is > > > > not the point I wish to make at this time. > > > > > Back to choice then. I think the ex-burglar correct, even when it > > > > comes to acting instinctivly to protect your loved ones, I would > > > > suppose that my instinct if I where to find myself in Mr Hussain's > > > > predicterment, would be differant from Mr Hussains. > > > > > The burglars fleed his property and he choose to chase them out, > > > > rather than seeing if his family were all okay. > > > > > Okay I guess I am I and he is he, I cannot know the kind of person he > > > > is nor what his lifes experiances have been upto this point. Which is > > > > getting towards the root of my concerns now. > > > > > A quick potted history of the life of Lee, in order to understand my > > > > next thought I think. > > > > > As a child I, along with the rest of my male siblings, was beaten a > > > > lot by my father, it has certianly left it's mark on my and goes a > > > > great deal to explaining certian facets of my pysche(as you would > > > > expect), the biggest off shoot of this is how I think about the effect > > > > of my actions on other people before I choose to act. > > > > > As a child getting a beating by a perant hurts, emotionaly and > > > > physicaly. So I retain the memory of how I felt at the time, and ask > > > > myself, this question: > > > > > If I act that way towards another person am I not engaging in the very > > > > same actions that hurt me so much? > > > > The answer is of course yes. > > > > > Now having realised this I must further ask, retaining the memory of > > > > how all of the felt and the mark it has left upon me, why would I wish > > > > to inflict the same upon others? > > > > The answer is I cannot do so and remain unhypocritical. > > > > > These questions and answers I feel are based on more than my lifes > > > > experiance, they are cold rationality in action, that is of course I > > > > realise that my perception is skewed because of my experiances, yet at > > > > the same time I do not think my answers irrational. > > > > > So back to My Hussian. After being tied up and beaten, and > > > > experiancing how that felt, the rational choice to make (according to > > > > me) is to ensure that his family are all good, that any injuries get > > > > seen to that any emotional or pshcological damage is restricted. To > > > > my mind to seek instant redress and to 'do unto others as they have > > > > done unto you' seems illogical, unhumane, and even worse it does make > > > > you into the very thing that you are trieing to protect your family > > > > against. > > > > > Choices? Ummm can we choose our belifes? I don't know, I suspect > > > > not. Can we choose how we behave? Yes yes of course we can. > > > > How do you reconcile that conclusion with the Guru Granth Sahib's > > > statement: > > > > Everyone is subject to His Command; no one is beyond His Command. O > > > Nanak, one who understands His > > > Command, does not speak in ego. (that's lines 15-16 of the 1st > > > page!!) > > > > Because, in my mind, when you say 'we', you are speaking from a > > > standpoint of ego. When, in truth: Cogito, ergo Deus est!- Hide quoted > > > text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
