I can appreciate your offering DWB. We all make mistakes, it is true, and often our mistakes violate others in gross and subtle ways. Sometimes, we later understand our actions to be mistakes, sometimes, while we are acting we know and do it anyway, sometimes, we never realize it. So we all carry on, and if we are compassionate, we can forgive others and ourselves for our mistakes, and allow ourselves and others the space for the realization, without judging or condemning. And, if the our mistakes or the mistakes of others arouse anger or fear within us, we deal with that (our own shadow nature) within us, and not place blame. Of course, this doesn't always happen, but it can...
Living life according to our own dictates is always complicated, because unless we are reclusive, there are always others with us in relationship to us and our experience. On May 24, 9:45 am, DarkwaterBlight <[email protected]> wrote: > Thank you for your input Molly! I always have valued you thoughts and > today is no seperate occasion. I do not believe people have any right > to commit such things though it is true that some believe it's ok. I > think that by means of justification one can convince oneself that > anything is ok. I do not live my life this way and have no need to > infringe upon the sanctity of others for the pursuit of my own > happiness or personal gain. Much to the contrary, I live and let live > and if someone wrongs me I bless that person no matter how much it > kills me to do so and no matter how much I wish to recompensate them > for their misdeed, I do not. I have found that insomuch as one sows > also shall that person reap and I have paid dearly for my misdeeds and > have reaped much sorrow. Even for my malign thoughts I have paid a > price and have worked hard to correct my ways and thinking. Simple > life science really and of which requires no belief, just > understanding and practice. My beliefs are something entirely > different from that of conventional theology, it is a bit more > compelex and difficult to explain. In time you will understand more > about the way I believe as I reveal myself. Cheers and good health to > you. > > On May 23, 3:16 pm, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > "I live my life as I wish to live it and I believe that everyone > > should have that right." > > > An interesting notion, DWB, and I wonder if you mean this literally - > > as if anyone who thought stealing, cheating, lying, murdering, > > violence, cruelty etc., was right and wished to live their lives doing > > as they pleased no matter the cost to those around them should do just > > that. It seems to me that belief in not only our own, but the rights > > of others is indeed important, but also needs to include the > > understanding of how our behavior effects others and the relationship > > of what we believe and do with the our world. Doing and saying as you > > please without awareness or regard of your response - ability to your > > total experience - including others, the earth, society, god....well, > > do we really have that right? I think we sell ourselves short like > > this most of all. > > > On May 23, 10:25 am, DarkwaterBlight <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > "Your in dreamland DB, I don't need any god to do any work on me. > > > Why > > > do I have to have a god to something to me?" > > > > Well I think the time will come when you will be able to answer that > > > question yourself my friend, perhaps for some bannanas? I don't know > > > and would not venture to guess.As I said, I don't wish to try to > > > convince you of anything and do not bear the banner for any crusade. > > > Surely we are all in our own little dreamland. > > > > "Did you ever consider that your "God" might just want people to > > > enjoy > > > life, to eat drink and be merry, to just live and "Stop" trying to > > > kiss god's ass?" > > > > Well yes and I'm glad that you make this point! By any religious > > > convention I think I would be considerd a heretic though I fail to > > > allow any bible beaters and the like to point that out. I live my life > > > as I wish to live it and I believe that everyone should have that > > > right. Along with drinking (gratuitous amounts I should add) and > > > eating it makes me "merry" to search for answers and find truth, > > > however subjective it may be, to explain this existance of ours and > > > perhaps point to some objective or absolute reason for it. I cannot > > > fathom kissing gods ass though, unless it was for bannanas. > > > > On May 21, 5:36 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Your in dreamland DB, I don't need any god to do any work on me. Why > > > > do I have to have a god to something to me? > > > > > Did you ever consider that your "God" might just want people to enjoy > > > > life, to eat drink and be merry, to just live and "Stop" trying to > > > > kiss god's ass? > > > > > I find it all so pathetic. > > > > > On May 21, 11:57 am, DarkwaterBlight <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I agree that there are many unanswered questions/unexplained phenomena > > > > > and the like which can easily be fit into a nice little man made "God > > > > > box". It does seem all too convienient while looking at the world > > > > > through eyes such as yours. I also look for "proof" and I often find > > > > > it in the human experience. Truly I do not count this as empirical > > > > > though the numbers are convincing.HA! One might conclude this is mass > > > > > dilusions of grandure on a global scale but the diversity of the > > > > > numbers is what is convincing to me. You see, many of these > > > > > "believers" are the same scientists that have you hooked on your lack > > > > > of beleif! What they are not telling you is the very same thing that > > > > > they "know" to be fact! And in the very same way your are bound in > > > > > your unbelief they are promoting false "Gods" and have the believing > > > > > masses blinded by "light" and worshiping "myths"! It comes down to > > > > > hegamony! Yes the lust for continued power and control and greed for > > > > > material riches. In anothr thread our friend, ash, spoke of "the > > > > > Beligerent Dimurge" and that is who is being worshiped. It is not the > > > > > true "God" as I understand God. Far be it from me to try to convince > > > > > you of anything as it is beyond my capacity but I am certain that God > > > > > shall do his own work with you. > > > > > > On May 21, 11:22 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I had no doubt that we would differ, Pat. What you say still evokes > > > > > > the question of a consciousness with intent. To say what IS just IS > > > > > > can be viewed as a truth, like the big boulder outside my window. > > > > > > You > > > > > > have created the box by imposing a set of inferences. When looking > > > > > > at > > > > > > the whole there doesn't have to be a box, which essentially is a > > > > > > human > > > > > > construct stemming from the need to address the unknown. > > > > > > We deal with physical science, the proof of things, a sort of macro- > > > > > > religion which defines everything in terms of what we see and > > > > > > experience with our physical senses while the natural world leaves > > > > > > open ended areas which we have no answers for. This is the point at > > > > > > which the constructs begin to take form because there is no proof > > > > > > otherwise, eg; the Gallileo experience. Without scientific proof > > > > > > anyone can say anything, purport truth from dust and create "Myth". > > > > > > Storms, lightning and thunder are no longer angry gods and > > > > > > sacrificial > > > > > > human lambs are no longer necessary but for some reason we have yet > > > > > > to > > > > > > let go of the main theme of religious belief. > > > > > > Religion's foundation is completely based on explanation of the > > > > > > unknown and the unseen, the perceptions of good and evil and the > > > > > > need > > > > > > to explore afterlife. These perceptions/constructs lead to a > > > > > > oneness, > > > > > > a central being, a deity and in some cultures a multiplicity, a > > > > > > composite of deities assigned to elements of the universe such as > > > > > > the > > > > > > ocean and the sun. Tack on the egocentric nature of humanity and > > > > > > what > > > > > > you get is man's idea that he is an appendage of the oneness, an > > > > > > extension of the almighty. Now we have gods with an uncanny > > > > > > resemblance to humans; why am I not surprised. Religions are > > > > > > worshiping "Humanity". Jesus = the only begotten son of god. Why? > > > > > > We are the children of god. Really? Say's who? This tendency is > > > > > > unrealistic for me and no one has ever throughout history shown in > > > > > > anyway a proof concerning religious dogma. It all remains to this > > > > > > day > > > > > > simple "Myths" from which to launch holy wars, commit unspeakable > > > > > > atrocities, build huge organizations that collect tithing and > > > > > > instill > > > > > > guilt and fear for living a natural and normal life. > > > > > > > On May 21, 6:51 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > On 16 May, 15:26, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > The ball of elaboration is in your court, this is your thread. > > > > > > > > You > > > > > > > > are making broad statements without saying much. > > > > > > > > > You see agnostics as having a "problem" because you have > > > > > > > > anchored > > > > > > > > yourself within your personal set of beliefs that you consider > > > > > > > > truths. > > > > > > > > > While issues can be linked to each other they can also be > > > > > > > > explored > > > > > > > > individually. > > > > > > > > > I don't see the thread going anywhere other than reaching > > > > > > > > levels of > > > > > > > > redundancy without resolution. > > > > > > > > > I'm with Albert Einstein below. > > > > > > > > > Borrowed FROM: > > > > > > > > Molly Brogan Thread May 26, 2008 > > > > > > > > > According to Plato: When the mind's eye rests on objects > > > > > > > > illuminated > > > > > > > > by truth and reality, it understands and comprehends them, and > > > > > > > > functions intelligently; but when it turns to the twilight > > > > > > > > world of > > > > > > > > change and decay, it can only form opinions, its vision is > > > > > > > > confused > > > > > > > > and its beliefs shifting, and it seems to lack intelligence. > > > > > > > > (Plato, > > > > > > > > Republic) > > > > > > > > > To Spinoza, ultimate truth is the ultimate reality of a > > > > > > > > rationally > > > > > > > > ordered system that is God. > > > > > > > > > To Hegel, truth is a rationally integrated > > > > > > > > system in which everything is contained. > > > > > > > > > To Einstein, “the truth of > > > > > > > > the Universe is human truth.” > > > > > > > > While I usually support Einstein, here we differ a tad. Einstein > > > > > > > went > > > > > > > in search of truth and discovered 'relativity'. This discovery > > > > > > > flavoured his view of truth, as he discovered the importance of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > 'reference point' from > > ... > > read more »
