All choice is an illusion. Cynicism is but ignorance as to the true nature of things
On Jun 3, 12:00 pm, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > so, you don't choose the words you put into your posts? > > On Jun 3, 1:49 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > All choice is an illusion. > > Cynicism is but ignorance as to the true nature of things > > > On Jun 3, 8:20 am, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > we choose our words, our thoughts and emotions. But as you say, when > > > we are "in the equipoise way" those choices are self evident and, as > > > DWB points out, only Brahaman. Cynicism will not get us there. > > > > On Jun 3, 12:40 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Being aware that there is no choice to be made and remaining in > > > > equipoise is the way. > > > > > On Jun 2, 3:43 pm, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Making the choice to be neither, yet embracing all those that are, as > > > > > essential to the One, is the means to escaping the slavery we each > > > > > impose on ourselves. > > > > > > On Jun 2, 5:29 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Those who dominate are actually slaves to their own lower nature. > > > > > > > On Jun 2, 12:15 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Molly is right. > > > > > > > Allan > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 2:33 AM, ornamentalmind > > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > Such confidence is rarely seen. > > > > > > > > > On Jun 1, 3:00 pm, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > we all use it, you are no exception. > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 1, 1:57 pm, ornamentalmind > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > *** assumes the royal 'we' is being used *** > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 1, 4:43 am, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > "we need to take on a greater arrogance to put the ' good > > > > > > > > > > > - at > > > > > > > > > > > - heart ' arrogant in place." > > > > > > > > > > > > I see, like toning down anger with more anger. Yes, this > > > > > > > > > > > can be > > > > > > > > > > > effective, but only if our counter anger is seen in truth > > > > > > > > > > > by us. > > > > > > > > > > > Often, in such situations, instead of one person lovingly > > > > > > > > > > > using the > > > > > > > > > > > affect of anger to tone down another into a more rational > > > > > > > > > > > state, we > > > > > > > > > > > get two people raging at one another. And like force, > > > > > > > > > > > this rarely > > > > > > > > > > > comes to love. > > > > > > > > > > > > The trick to it would be, I suppose, that our judgment of > > > > > > > > > > > another be > > > > > > > > > > > completely clear, devoid of all self serving agenda, > > > > > > > > > > > shining like the > > > > > > > > > > > sun at high noon, without shadow. Often, we do not > > > > > > > > > > > recognize that it > > > > > > > > > > > is not until the words are already spoken and the damage > > > > > > > > > > > done. More > > > > > > > > > > > often, we donn the suit of the warrior out to squash > > > > > > > > > > > wrong in another > > > > > > > > > > > with our sword of love and come to find that indeed, we > > > > > > > > > > > have picked > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > the sword of self interest instead, and are ultimately at > > > > > > > > > > > war with > > > > > > > > > > > ourselves, only recognizing it in other when our own > > > > > > > > > > > shadow turns the > > > > > > > > > > > mirror to darkness. Thus, humility has its way with us, > > > > > > > > > > > and the > > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > > > > is restored. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that one big clue as to which is which is the > > > > > > > > > > > language that > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > choose, even in our own thoughts. If we are looking to > > > > > > > > > > > expose and > > > > > > > > > > > condemn with references of evil and harsh words, we are > > > > > > > > > > > usually > > > > > > > > > > > quelling our own ghosts. When we are reaching out with > > > > > > > > > > > compassion > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > holding other in the greater good, we are moving in > > > > > > > > > > > compassion. > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, when we are revved up with emotion, we > > > > > > > > > > > sometimes don't > > > > > > > > > > > stop to determine the difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 8:40 am, vamadevananda <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > It isn't the whole thing, Molly ! Sometimes, as they > > > > > > > > > > > > say, God > > > > > > > > > > > > willing, we need to take on a greater arrogance to put > > > > > > > > > > > > the ' good - > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > - heart ' arrogant in place. Out of sheer love of the > > > > > > > > > > > > other, if I > > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > > > > add. It usually is on account of forgetfulness and the > > > > > > > > > > > > treatment > > > > > > > > > > > > serves to shake things up in a moment or for a day or > > > > > > > > > > > > week, for the > > > > > > > > > > > > protagonist to reflect and realise the simplest of > > > > > > > > > > > > truths he'd come > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > transgress. > > > > > > > > > > > > > We'll all have the time and occasion to come together > > > > > > > > > > > > when we can > > > > > > > > > > > > appreciate or deprecate our bodies, talk of our > > > > > > > > > > > > feelings and > > > > > > > > emotions, > > > > > > > > > > > > our thoughts and ideas, and our knowledge, with the > > > > > > > > > > > > full awareness > > > > > > > > > > > > that it is the others who are making it possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > Occasionally too, > > > > > > > > > > > > the knowledge comes to resonate among two or may > > > > > > > > > > > > people. That's the > > > > > > > > > > > > blessing beyond par ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > But force - creating such resonance is not only futile > > > > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > damaging, > > > > > > > > > > > > even traumatic, too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 5:05 pm, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arrogance can be offputting. My experience is, that > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is > > > > > > > > usually, in > > > > > > > > > > > > > one way or another, shattered by humility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Experience has a way > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving this to us in the most surprising ways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 3:27 am, vamadevananda > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " But how do we know that someone else is not just > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exploring a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > particular phase in their overall integrity, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > may find > > > > > > > > something > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tomorrow to move them beyond ?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As PSK said, by the rigidity, definitiveness and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > finality in > > > > > > > > one's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > public declarations. The evangelists and extremists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do that, so > > > > > > > > do the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doom - sayers ! It is the damage by such > > > > > > > > > > > > > > declarations that > > > > > > > > must be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > preempted, if we may. The moving beyond, as the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2012 doom > > > > > > > > sayers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly will, is in the future, having nothing to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mitigate > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > damages and scarring one is causing today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Why is it important to judge a person's view as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > closed or > > > > > > > > open ?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because closed views are like stagnant, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unreplenished, waters > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > filthy and poisonous ! The open view is above all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about the > > > > > > > > awareness > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of what is factual, experiential, deductive or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > extrapolatory, > > > > > > > > belief > > > > > > > > > > > > > > however reasonable to oneself, and conjectural. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's important > > > > > > > > to keep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a hold on oneself, and not miss out or obfuscate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > qualifying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > truths pertaining to our thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once thoughts are shared in such open spirit, we do > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > consider > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ourself and our thought as privileged or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > overridingly more > > > > > > > > important > > > > > > > > > > > > > > than that of other ( well meaning or like endowed ) > > > > > > > > individuals. You'd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find the dialogues which then proceed to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > relatively free of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > desperation and violence, not to speak of the human > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ' joys, > > > > > > > > laughters > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and flirtations ' fostered by our readiness to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > appreciate the ' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > meanings ' of what our interlocutors offer. In > > > > > > > > > > > > > > short, we remain > > > > > > > > human > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amongst others ... not seekers or claimants of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > privileged > > > > > > > > status or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > position. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 30, 10:12 pm, Molly <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "those who do not rise and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > merely become adept, great adepts but chilling > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like lords > > > > > > > > Voldemort, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dedicated to a specific concept - structure that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is deified > > > > > > > > but only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because it assures one's own overriding self - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > importance." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can we possibly judge whether someone else is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doing as > > > > > > > > you say > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > here, or merely in the midst of current > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exploration and > > > > > > > > integration? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After all, we all take our studies in phases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Being open and > > > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > state of wonder is important, I agree. But how > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do we know > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > someone else is not just exploring a particular > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > phase in > > > > > > > > their overall > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > integrity, and may find something tomorrow to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > move them > > > > > > > > beyond? Why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is it important to judge a person's view as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > closed or open? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 29, 4:55 am, vamadevananda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems the way I came across to this Group, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the ideas and > > > > > > > > views I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > presented, have affected some people. Pat may > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be true in > > > > > > > > saying that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > he'd been thus ' helped.' I do remember > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > communicating with > > > > > > > > a few > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > others through mail. > > ... > > read more »
