your sneer is showing. I will leave what Pat knows and doesn't up to Pat. But will say, like relative and absolute, One and Many, choice is a matter of state and stage of being. Ultimately, as we have realized the One within our individuality, our choices are the choices of the One, our self will becomes Divine Will. Yet, the choice to realize the One, to move toward, with or against others, to use hateful words or compassionate words, to make the move to understand or not, are all the relative choices that allow us to realize ourselves as One in Many. The paradox of it, is that we have choice and non choice and ultimately, they are the same because when we have realized infinite possibility, we have made all choices and so no choices. How many people do you know that have realized infinite possibility (Christ consciousness)? Anyone capable of moving against another person, has not. This realization, like all others, requires a change in viewpoint (that is a choice) that precludes such action.
On Jun 3, 6:44 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > ...even Pat knows this! > > On Jun 3, 12:00 pm, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > so, you don't choose the words you put into your posts? > > > On Jun 3, 1:49 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > All choice is an illusion. > > > Cynicism is but ignorance as to the true nature of things > > > > On Jun 3, 8:20 am, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > we choose our words, our thoughts and emotions. But as you say, when > > > > we are "in the equipoise way" those choices are self evident and, as > > > > DWB points out, only Brahaman. Cynicism will not get us there. > > > > > On Jun 3, 12:40 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Being aware that there is no choice to be made and remaining in > > > > > equipoise is the way. > > > > > > On Jun 2, 3:43 pm, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Making the choice to be neither, yet embracing all those that are, > > > > > > as > > > > > > essential to the One, is the means to escaping the slavery we each > > > > > > impose on ourselves. > > > > > > > On Jun 2, 5:29 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Those who dominate are actually slaves to their own lower nature. > > > > > > > > On Jun 2, 12:15 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Molly is right. > > > > > > > > Allan > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 2:33 AM, ornamentalmind > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Such confidence is rarely seen. > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 1, 3:00 pm, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > we all use it, you are no exception. > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 1, 1:57 pm, ornamentalmind > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > *** assumes the royal 'we' is being used *** > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 1, 4:43 am, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > "we need to take on a greater arrogance to put the ' > > > > > > > > > > > > good - at > > > > > > > > > > > > - heart ' arrogant in place." > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see, like toning down anger with more anger. Yes, > > > > > > > > > > > > this can be > > > > > > > > > > > > effective, but only if our counter anger is seen in > > > > > > > > > > > > truth by us. > > > > > > > > > > > > Often, in such situations, instead of one person > > > > > > > > > > > > lovingly using the > > > > > > > > > > > > affect of anger to tone down another into a more > > > > > > > > > > > > rational state, we > > > > > > > > > > > > get two people raging at one another. And like force, > > > > > > > > > > > > this rarely > > > > > > > > > > > > comes to love. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The trick to it would be, I suppose, that our judgment > > > > > > > > > > > > of another be > > > > > > > > > > > > completely clear, devoid of all self serving agenda, > > > > > > > > > > > > shining like the > > > > > > > > > > > > sun at high noon, without shadow. Often, we do not > > > > > > > > > > > > recognize that it > > > > > > > > > > > > is not until the words are already spoken and the > > > > > > > > > > > > damage done. More > > > > > > > > > > > > often, we donn the suit of the warrior out to squash > > > > > > > > > > > > wrong in another > > > > > > > > > > > > with our sword of love and come to find that indeed, we > > > > > > > > > > > > have picked > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > the sword of self interest instead, and are ultimately > > > > > > > > > > > > at war with > > > > > > > > > > > > ourselves, only recognizing it in other when our own > > > > > > > > > > > > shadow turns the > > > > > > > > > > > > mirror to darkness. Thus, humility has its way with > > > > > > > > > > > > us, and the > > > > > > > > > light > > > > > > > > > > > > is restored. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that one big clue as to which is which is the > > > > > > > > > > > > language that > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > > choose, even in our own thoughts. If we are looking to > > > > > > > > > > > > expose and > > > > > > > > > > > > condemn with references of evil and harsh words, we are > > > > > > > > > > > > usually > > > > > > > > > > > > quelling our own ghosts. When we are reaching out with > > > > > > > > > > > > compassion > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > holding other in the greater good, we are moving in > > > > > > > > > > > > compassion. > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, when we are revved up with emotion, we > > > > > > > > > > > > sometimes don't > > > > > > > > > > > > stop to determine the difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 8:40 am, vamadevananda > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It isn't the whole thing, Molly ! Sometimes, as they > > > > > > > > > > > > > say, God > > > > > > > > > > > > > willing, we need to take on a greater arrogance to > > > > > > > > > > > > > put the ' good - > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > > > > > - heart ' arrogant in place. Out of sheer love of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > other, if I > > > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > > > > > add. It usually is on account of forgetfulness and > > > > > > > > > > > > > the treatment > > > > > > > > > > > > > serves to shake things up in a moment or for a day or > > > > > > > > > > > > > week, for the > > > > > > > > > > > > > protagonist to reflect and realise the simplest of > > > > > > > > > > > > > truths he'd come > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > transgress. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We'll all have the time and occasion to come together > > > > > > > > > > > > > when we can > > > > > > > > > > > > > appreciate or deprecate our bodies, talk of our > > > > > > > > > > > > > feelings and > > > > > > > > > emotions, > > > > > > > > > > > > > our thoughts and ideas, and our knowledge, with the > > > > > > > > > > > > > full awareness > > > > > > > > > > > > > that it is the others who are making it possible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Occasionally too, > > > > > > > > > > > > > the knowledge comes to resonate among two or may > > > > > > > > > > > > > people. That's the > > > > > > > > > > > > > blessing beyond par ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But force - creating such resonance is not only > > > > > > > > > > > > > futile but > > > > > > > > > damaging, > > > > > > > > > > > > > even traumatic, too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 5:05 pm, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arrogance can be offputting. My experience is, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that it is > > > > > > > > > usually, in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one way or another, shattered by humility. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Experience has a way > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving this to us in the most surprising ways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 3:27 am, vamadevananda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " But how do we know that someone else is not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just exploring a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > particular phase in their overall integrity, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > may find > > > > > > > > > something > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tomorrow to move them beyond ?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As PSK said, by the rigidity, definitiveness and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > finality in > > > > > > > > > one's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > public declarations. The evangelists and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > extremists do that, so > > > > > > > > > do the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doom - sayers ! It is the damage by such > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > declarations that > > > > > > > > > must be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > preempted, if we may. The moving beyond, as the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2012 doom > > > > > > > > > sayers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly will, is in the future, having nothing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to mitigate > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > damages and scarring one is causing today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Why is it important to judge a person's view as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > closed or > > > > > > > > > open ?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because closed views are like stagnant, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unreplenished, waters > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > filthy and poisonous ! The open view is above > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all about the > > > > > > > > > awareness > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of what is factual, experiential, deductive or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > extrapolatory, > > > > > > > > > belief > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > however reasonable to oneself, and conjectural. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's important > > > > > > > > > to keep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a hold on oneself, and not miss out or obfuscate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > qualifying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > truths pertaining to our thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once thoughts are shared in such open spirit, we > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do not > > > > > > > > > consider > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ourself and our thought as privileged or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > overridingly more > > > > > > > > > important > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > than that of other ( well meaning or like endowed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > individuals. You'd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find the dialogues which then proceed to be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > relatively free of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > desperation and violence, not to speak of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > human ' joys, > > > > > > > > > laughters > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and flirtations ' fostered by our readiness to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > appreciate the ' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > meanings ' of what our interlocutors offer. In > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > short, we remain > > > > > > > > > human > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amongst others ... not seekers or claimants of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > privileged > > > > > > > > > status or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > position. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 30, 10:12 pm, Molly <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "those who do not rise and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > merely become adept, great adepts but chilling > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like lords > > > > > > > > > Voldemort, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dedicated to a specific concept - structure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that is deified > > > > > > > > > but only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because it assures one's own overriding self - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > importance." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can we possibly judge whether someone else > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is doing as > > > > > > > > > you say > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > here, or merely in the midst of current > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exploration and > > > > > > > > > integration? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After all, we all take our studies in phases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Being open and > > > > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > state of wonder is important, I agree. But how > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do we know > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > someone else is not just exploring a particular > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > phase in > > > > > > > > > their overall > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > integrity, and may find something tomorrow to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > move them > > > > > > > > > beyond? Why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is it important to judge a person's view as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > closed or open? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 29, 4:55 am, vamadevananda > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
