RP I'm actually thinking about answering this comment,, but then again I am wondering why??? Allan
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 12:10 PM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > Ultimately, as we have > realized the One within our individuality, our choices are the choices > of the One, our self will becomes Divine Will. ---Molly > > Our will can never become the divine will and a person who thinks that his > will has become the divine will is suffering from grandiose delusions and > to all intents and purposes he is insane.----RP > > On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 1:21 AM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > >> your sneer is showing. I will leave what Pat knows and doesn't up to >> Pat. But will say, like relative and absolute, One and Many, choice >> is a matter of state and stage of being. Ultimately, as we have >> realized the One within our individuality, our choices are the choices >> of the One, our self will becomes Divine Will. Yet, the choice to >> realize the One, to move toward, with or against others, to use >> hateful words or compassionate words, to make the move to understand >> or not, are all the relative choices that allow us to realize >> ourselves as One in Many. The paradox of it, is that we have choice >> and non choice and ultimately, they are the same because when we have >> realized infinite possibility, we have made all choices and so no >> choices. How many people do you know that have realized infinite >> possibility (Christ consciousness)? Anyone capable of moving against >> another person, has not. This realization, like all others, requires >> a change in viewpoint (that is a choice) that precludes such action. >> >> On Jun 3, 6:44 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: >> > ...even Pat knows this! >> > >> > On Jun 3, 12:00 pm, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > > so, you don't choose the words you put into your posts? >> > >> > > On Jun 3, 1:49 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > > All choice is an illusion. >> > > > Cynicism is but ignorance as to the true nature of things >> > >> > > > On Jun 3, 8:20 am, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > > > we choose our words, our thoughts and emotions. But as you say, >> when >> > > > > we are "in the equipoise way" those choices are self evident and, >> as >> > > > > DWB points out, only Brahaman. Cynicism will not get us there. >> > >> > > > > On Jun 3, 12:40 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > > > > > Being aware that there is no choice to be made and remaining in >> > > > > > equipoise is the way. >> > >> > > > > > On Jun 2, 3:43 pm, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > Making the choice to be neither, yet embracing all those that >> are, as >> > > > > > > essential to the One, is the means to escaping the slavery we >> each >> > > > > > > impose on ourselves. >> > >> > > > > > > On Jun 2, 5:29 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > Those who dominate are actually slaves to their own lower >> nature. >> > >> > > > > > > > On Jun 2, 12:15 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > > Molly is right. >> > > > > > > > > Allan >> > >> > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 2:33 AM, ornamentalmind >> > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > Such confidence is rarely seen. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > On Jun 1, 3:00 pm, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > we all use it, you are no exception. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 1, 1:57 pm, ornamentalmind < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > *** assumes the royal 'we' is being used *** >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 1, 4:43 am, Molly <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > "we need to take on a greater arrogance to put the >> ' good - at >> > > > > > > > > > > > > - heart ' arrogant in place." >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > I see, like toning down anger with more anger. >> Yes, this can be >> > > > > > > > > > > > > effective, but only if our counter anger is seen >> in truth by us. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Often, in such situations, instead of one person >> lovingly using the >> > > > > > > > > > > > > affect of anger to tone down another into a more >> rational state, we >> > > > > > > > > > > > > get two people raging at one another. And like >> force, this rarely >> > > > > > > > > > > > > comes to love. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > The trick to it would be, I suppose, that our >> judgment of another be >> > > > > > > > > > > > > completely clear, devoid of all self serving >> agenda, shining like the >> > > > > > > > > > > > > sun at high noon, without shadow. Often, we do >> not recognize that it >> > > > > > > > > > > > > is not until the words are already spoken and the >> damage done. More >> > > > > > > > > > > > > often, we donn the suit of the warrior out to >> squash wrong in another >> > > > > > > > > > > > > with our sword of love and come to find that >> indeed, we have picked >> > > > > > > > > > up >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the sword of self interest instead, and are >> ultimately at war with >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ourselves, only recognizing it in other when our >> own shadow turns the >> > > > > > > > > > > > > mirror to darkness. Thus, humility has its way >> with us, and the >> > > > > > > > > > light >> > > > > > > > > > > > > is restored. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that one big clue as to which is which is >> the language that >> > > > > > > > > > we >> > > > > > > > > > > > > choose, even in our own thoughts. If we are >> looking to expose and >> > > > > > > > > > > > > condemn with references of evil and harsh words, >> we are usually >> > > > > > > > > > > > > quelling our own ghosts. When we are reaching out >> with compassion >> > > > > > > > > > and >> > > > > > > > > > > > > holding other in the greater good, we are moving >> in compassion. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, when we are revved up with emotion, >> we sometimes don't >> > > > > > > > > > > > > stop to determine the difference. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 8:40 am, vamadevananda < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > It isn't the whole thing, Molly ! Sometimes, as >> they say, God >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > willing, we need to take on a greater arrogance >> to put the ' good - >> > > > > > > > > > at >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > - heart ' arrogant in place. Out of sheer love >> of the other, if I >> > > > > > > > > > may >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > add. It usually is on account of forgetfulness >> and the treatment >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > serves to shake things up in a moment or for a >> day or week, for the >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > protagonist to reflect and realise the simplest >> of truths he'd come >> > > > > > > > > > to >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > transgress. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We'll all have the time and occasion to come >> together when we can >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > appreciate or deprecate our bodies, talk of our >> feelings and >> > > > > > > > > > emotions, >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > our thoughts and ideas, and our knowledge, with >> the full awareness >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that it is the others who are making it >> possible. Occasionally too, >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the knowledge comes to resonate among two or may >> people. That's the >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > blessing beyond par ! >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But force - creating such resonance is not only >> futile but >> > > > > > > > > > damaging, >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > even traumatic, too. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 5:05 pm, Molly <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arrogance can be offputting. My experience >> is, that it is >> > > > > > > > > > usually, in >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one way or another, shattered by humility. >> Experience has a way >> > > > > > > > > > of >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > giving this to us in the most surprising ways. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 3:27 am, vamadevananda < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " But how do we know that someone else is >> not just exploring a >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > particular phase in their overall integrity, >> and may find >> > > > > > > > > > something >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tomorrow to move them beyond ?" >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As PSK said, by the rigidity, definitiveness >> and finality in >> > > > > > > > > > one's >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > public declarations. The evangelists and >> extremists do that, so >> > > > > > > > > > do the >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doom - sayers ! It is the damage by such >> declarations that >> > > > > > > > > > must be >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > preempted, if we may. The moving beyond, as >> the 2012 doom >> > > > > > > > > > sayers >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly will, is in the future, having >> nothing to mitigate >> > > > > > > > > > the >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > damages and scarring one is causing today. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Why is it important to judge a person's >> view as closed or >> > > > > > > > > > open ?" >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because closed views are like stagnant, >> unreplenished, waters >> > > > > > > > > > ... >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > filthy and poisonous ! The open view is >> above all about the >> > > > > > > > > > awareness >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of what is factual, experiential, deductive >> or extrapolatory, >> > > > > > > > > > belief >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > however reasonable to oneself, and >> conjectural. It's important >> > > > > > > > > > to keep >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a hold on oneself, and not miss out or >> obfuscate these >> > > > > > > > > > qualifying >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > truths pertaining to our thoughts. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once thoughts are shared in such open >> spirit, we do not >> > > > > > > > > > consider >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ourself and our thought as privileged or >> overridingly more >> > > > > > > > > > important >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > than that of other ( well meaning or like >> endowed ) >> > > > > > > > > > individuals. You'd >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find the dialogues which then proceed to be >> relatively free of >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > desperation and violence, not to speak of >> the human ' joys, >> > > > > > > > > > laughters >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and flirtations ' fostered by our readiness >> to appreciate the ' >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > meanings ' of what our interlocutors offer. >> In short, we remain >> > > > > > > > > > human >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > amongst others ... not seekers or claimants >> of privileged >> > > > > > > > > > status or >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > position. >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 30, 10:12 pm, Molly < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "those who do not rise and >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > merely become adept, great adepts but >> chilling like lords >> > > > > > > > > > Voldemort, >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dedicated to a specific concept - >> structure that is deified >> > > > > > > > > > but only >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because it assures one's own overriding >> self - importance." >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can we possibly judge whether someone >> else is doing as >> > > > > > > > > > you say >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > here, or merely in the midst of current >> exploration and >> > > > > > > > > > integration? >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After all, we all take our studies in >> phases. Being open and >> > > > > > > > > > in a >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > state of wonder is important, I agree. >> But how do we know >> > > > > > > > > > that >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > someone else is not just exploring a >> particular phase in >> > > > > > > > > > their overall >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > integrity, and may find something tomorrow >> to move them >> > > > > > > > > > beyond? Why >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is it important to judge a person's view >> as closed or open? >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 29, 4:55 am, vamadevananda < >> [email protected]> >> > > > > > > > > > wrote: >> > >> > ... >> > >> > read more ยป- Hide quoted text - >> > >> > - Show quoted text - > > > -- ( ) I_D Allan Be Paranoid. God is always building a better idiot!!!
