An old parable that is not exclusive to religion states; "What you believe is so, is so."
Is that the same effect as "I believe therefor I am"? > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 09:26:35 -0700 > Subject: [Mind's Eye] Re: The Phenomenon ' I ' > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > > "To what benefit does belief > in a god hold other than a false comfort out of self delusion? Are > believers in god any better off than the rest of the people in the > world? Do they live longer, live more prosperous, live without > disease or present any other life circumstance that differentiates > them from the non believers?"- Slip > > I would say that belief of itself holds more power than disbelief > without even adding a god or gods into the eqution! An old parable > that is not exclusive to religion states; "What you believe is so, is > so." > In my limited experience and IMHO I 'believe' this to be true. > > > On Aug 17, 11:57 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > Divine Will did not create all the species that are present. Genetic > > mingling within the "primordial" pool generated new species which are > > basically chromosomal anomalies and mutations . Just consider the > > offspring of just 3 organisms such as A, B and C. You get AA, AB, > > AC, BB, BA, BC, CC, CA and CB. Now mix all those together and affix > > the multiplier to the group; it's exponential. It's like the mule, > > the offspring of a male donkey and a female horse and the numerous > > variations in aves and canine species. Mammoth creatures hadn't much > > of a chance for survival but mostly what remains today are smaller > > organisms including ourselves. There are a few giant creatures around > > like the elephant and whale. I do believe in afterlife primarily on > > account of my lucid dreams, a coma experience and the knowledge of > > parallel universes which make it quite possible for a consciousness to > > incarnate within a parallel plane of existence. We have not traveled > > so far as to establish life elsewhere but it does not mean life > > doesn't exist elsewhere. As methods of space travel increase our > > ability for distance and duration we may someday discover another > > solar system with life; then again we may not, but who knows. > > I'm still wondering what you have to offer in the way of > > substantiation of such beliefs aside from written texts by ancient > > people who lacked the scientific knowledge that renders many of the > > writings mere superstition and myth. Basically we are creatures that > > are part of the biological portion of the universe with > > characteristics that separate us from inanimate objects such as rocks. > > Our intelligence is something that evolved over millions of years; we > > were not programed with intelligence by an intelligent source. We > > have become what we are by our own invention and as gruff points out > > we have yet to reach our full potential. To what benefit does belief > > in a god hold other than a false comfort out of self delusion? Are > > believers in god any better off than the rest of the people in the > > world? Do they live longer, live more prosperous, live without > > disease or present any other life circumstance that differentiates > > them from the non believers? > > > > On Aug 17, 8:07 am, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Slip , I like your assessment of religion , but I have never talked > > > religion , I have talked of one God who may or may not be conscious , but > > > he > > > is intelligent to such a degree that a universe which has intelligent > > > design > > > has sprung from Him. Like you I don't believe in a after life. It is > > > strange > > > that one man who believes in God says that he will go to ashes after death > > > while another who doesn't believe in God says he will live many lives. I > > > like the beauty of this and often wonder about this divine will which has > > > made so many species , but to me I am simply an organism like any other > > > and > > > would die and attain the supreme peace that is in oblivion because whether > > > you agree or not even a life of luxury is painful as compared to the > > > everlasting peace of oblivion. > > > > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 5:37 AM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > It seems many things and possibly all things are perishable but it > > > > bears no meaning nor represents any point beyond something being > > > > perishable. To consider life being a product of "intelligent" design > > > > requires a great deal of blind faith, for nothing in our history has > > > > ever demonstrated that notion as conclusive evidence but has clearly > > > > maintained itself to be deduction. Fact is that any real observation > > > > of life will reveal numerous design flaws which fail to meet any > > > > standard of a super intelligence. Health and disease concerns are > > > > evidence of a faulty design just from start; tack on the natural > > > > disasters that kill millions each year and the intelligence portion of > > > > your argument continues to shrink. > > > > > > A feral child is born and throughout life fails to reach any level of > > > > discernible intelligence therefore it could be reasonably understood > > > > that intelligence in an of itself is a product stemming from multiple > > > > factors such as environmental influence. You fail to recognize the > > > > fact that we have ascended from a prehistoric time of limited mental > > > > capacity, that we were simply another beast roaming the earth, that > > > > other now extinct beasts of mammoth proportion were our co-inhabitants > > > > and very little if any of that existence exhibited signs of > > > > intelligent design. > > > > > > Humans developed the ability to speak and communicate ideas which were > > > > shared among groups and through travel were extended to other areas. > > > > While some groups progressed others remained primitive, which is still > > > > evidenced today by primitive cultures who for some reason remain > > > > isolated in remote areas of jungles and forests. Early man conjured > > > > ideas from simple deduction based on environment and finally reaching > > > > a point of recognition of helplessness over certain conditions began > > > > to look elsewhere for help, ergo; gods were created. By mere > > > > observation of cultural systems whereby different charges were > > > > delegated to certain individuals it became clear that the environment > > > > must have been commanded by individual gods, ergo; the sun god, god of > > > > the sea and others. > > > > > > Then of course there came the ultimate source of knowledge "religion" > > > > and along with it came power and the destruction that ensued. > > > > Individuals became aware that others less astute would turn to them > > > > for answers and so having answers was a must in order to establish one > > > > as being an authority. At the same time there were others who > > > > branched off with other ideas such as monotheism and established their > > > > congregation. One led to another and the ramification of the idea > > > > that there were gods filled the earth. Governments were literally > > > > built on the ideas and once it was realized that the resultant bi- > > > > product of religion was monetary wealth it became clear that others > > > > needed to be destroyed because they were taking away from the > > > > profits. > > > > > > Well here we are living in a world with thousands of years behind us > > > > filled with a myriad of religious beliefs and a gazillion hours of > > > > "prayer" to imaginary gods imploring them to help us out of our > > > > misery. Still after all this time and effort we find ourselves > > > > floundering in the muck and mire of a self induced quagmire of world > > > > hunger and poverty. Your god and any other person's god has done > > > > nothing about hunger and poverty and it remains a crucial human > > > > issue. But there is a cure without a god. > > > > > > There are simple solutions to world hunger/poverty but humanity is > > > > just not doing anything about it. There are simple solutions to > > > > homelessness but humanity is not doing anything about it. > > > > > > What humanity "IS" doing is foreclosing on homes and farms, paying > > > > farmers not to grow crops as a means of controlling stock figures and > > > > numerous other blockage devices designed to encourage quagmires. > > > > > > What humanity "IS" doing is setting up systems of government and > > > > financial institutions that create "Mega Wealth" and "Wars" to gain > > > > wealth and it "IS" being accomplished without any problem. > > > > Mega wealth>No Problem War>No Problem Hunger>Problem > > > > Homelessness>Problem Poverty>Problem > > > > > > And here is the story about how religion gets going...... > > > > > > First you have the sheep that are freezing in the cold while their > > > > wool > > > > is constantly being fleeced. They don't understand why they are > > > > always in the cold when they have so much wool. They look and see > > > > the fleecers living warm and cozy with their wool and see piles of > > > > wool not being used but sold to other fleecers. The sheep get tired > > > > of being cold so they start to buy back their wool but the prices are > > > > really high and some sheep can't afford to buy any, so they must > > > > remain cold, some are so cold that they freeze to death. Some of the > > > > sheep protest but many of them are jailed, assassinated and turned > > > > into mutton soup. > > > > One of the sheep named Shep tells the other sheep that the reason they > > > > are cold is because they were born as bad sheep and must pray to > > > > BahBah the great sheep deity. Shep teaches the sheep how to pray and > > > > tells the sheep they need to keep him warm so that he can keep > > > > teaching them about BahBah. The sheep gather whatever wool they can > > > > glean from the fields and barns and keep Shep warm. Thousands of > > > > years go by and many sheep replace Shep and the sheep continue to > > > > support the huge organization that Shep built, but the sheep are still > > > > cold and giving all their wool to the fleecers 'and' the Shep while > > > > waiting for BahBah to deliver them to freedom. Nothing ever happens > > > > but the sheep are told not to worry because as long as they keep > > > > praying and giving wool to the Shep they will have everlasting life in > > > > Sheep Heaven. > > > > Then there is Wolfy, Shep's friend, he sees how Shep has created an > > > > empire and so starts telling the wolves that the reason they are > > > > hungry is because they were born as bad wolves and must pray to Wol > > > > the wolf deity. The wolves did not have anything to give Wolfy so > > > > besides praying they began to"Prey" on the sheep so they could keep > > > > Wolfy well fed in order to keep teaching them how to pray to Wol. > > > > Well the story goes on until hundreds of other Shep's and Wolfy's > > > > began to spring up but......."The sheep are still Cold." > > > > > > Moral of the story? BahBah is Bull.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -
