I personally think that the sub co opus is a combination of what we have experienced and or know,yet you have to allow for that of the transcendental nature. Allan
On 21 jul. 2011, at 20:33, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > Paradox, in general, I agree with archy… at least to the majority of > what is commonly called consciousness being but the Kool Aid of > propaganda and other manifestations of trance. I also agree w/him that > to wake up takes a lot of digging… reviewing memories, beliefs and > notions not ‘real’ as well as nonsensical – rooting out how our > individual (and group) ontological view was manufactured. Such pap can > easily be shared…thus reacted to. > > Side note: yes, I saw your smiley :D > > > On Jul 21, 10:06 am, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: >> I'm confused, archytas (yes, i know, easily done); if consciousness >> (as is generally accepted), or it's "substrate" (are you referring to >> it's neurophysiology?) is "nonsense", then to what shall we credit the >> great, often insightful, always engaging reactionary flourishes we >> enjoy from your contributions? :) >> >> On Jul 20, 8:19 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Thanks for that Orn. My own working theory is that much of what we >>> call consciousness is nonsense _ I mean its substrate is nonsense. >>> I'm broadly materialist (though once we look at these labels they have >>> less significance than some attribute to them) - so I tend to believe >>> consciousness in an individual is part of an adjustment to culture >>> built by others and that the individual may be able to bring >>> creativity to that as well as conformity. If we do something like >>> trying to remember a few numbers, it seems what we draw from memory >>> also contains links to what else was about the numbers when we put >>> them in memory. Much the same is true for me playing a few bars from >>> Orn's link ( a good time in Lancaster). >>> The idea of the sub-conscious gets difficult once you look at how >>> people sway each other into false decisions and reasoning - it's >>> clearly not easily placed as internal of a specific individual.. This >>> turns out true of consciousness too - unless one goes to a lot of >>> introspective 'effort'. >> >>> On Jul 20, 5:19 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>> For the few from different eras and cultures, here is Peggy's original >>>> "Fever"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGb5IweiYG8 >> >>>> On Jul 19, 6:39 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>> I was happy to find Peggy Lee recorded this song though I haven't >>>>> heard it- I admired her voice along with Ella Fitzgerald's. This would >>>>> be a great day for Lee's "Fever". We have a heat index of 113 F.!!! >>>>> Anyway, I have a pretty good memory of lyrics as mother wasn't a >>>>> storybook reader and the radio and 78 rpm records were my nursery >>>>> songs and stories until the nuns read to us or I could read on my own. >> >>>>> On Jul 17, 1:18 pm, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>>> Phew; got so caught up in your ballad, i was just about to singalong, >>>>>> caught myself just in time. Visions of my daughter's animated >>>>>> exlamation..."Yes! I knew it! I told you so!" Lol. >> >>>>>> The admiration's mutual...what?? That does't sound right...? You know >>>>>> what i mean...: i think i need a lie down....lol. >> >>>>>> On Jul 17, 1:30 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>>>> I can admire men and still not want to be one! No, paradox, "I enjoy >>>>>>> being a girl..." (song) >> >>>>>>> On Jul 16, 7:29 am, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>>>>> You dont know what you're missing, rigsy! lol. >> >>>>>>>> On Jul 16, 12:53 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>> I could never be a man- in body form or behavior. Thank you, Lord, for >>>>>>>>> allowing me to be a female!!! :-) >> >>>>>>>>> On Jul 15, 1:41 pm, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>> I have quite some considerable experience of the emotional >>>>>>>>>> responsiveness of the fairer sex, rigsy :) Personally, i think the >>>>>>>>>> gender difference, if there is one, is more emotional maturity and >>>>>>>>>> honesty than anything "structural. >> >>>>>>>>>> On Jul 15, 12:04 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Tony and Paradox. >> >>>>>>>>>>> Except we can clean up our hard drive! >> >>>>>>>>>>> Maybe I should have said "reactions" rather than moods- esp. since >>>>>>>>>>> females have the rep of being moody creatures. I'm not sure if it is >>>>>>>>>>> memory or the sc that is triggered by irrational associations. >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 15, 3:22 am, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Not as familiar with the terrain regarding imagination and >>>>>>>>>>>> creativity, >>>>>>>>>>>> rigsy; but some thoughts; imagination probably employs the same >>>>>>>>>>>> object >>>>>>>>>>>> representation and manipulation routines as event "simulation", >>>>>>>>>>>> certainly occupies the same higher order region; the process is >>>>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>>>> less well tethered; an analogy that comes to mind is that of the >>>>>>>>>>>> rider >>>>>>>>>>>> whose handling on the reins becomes more adept the more confident >>>>>>>>>>>> he/ >>>>>>>>>>>> she becomes, and the more conditioned the horse gets over time. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Creativity is more difficult to pin down; my intuitive sense is >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> it's probably defined in the versatility of transition of >>>>>>>>>>>> isomorphic >>>>>>>>>>>> brain "states"; so its not so much a "discrete" attribute, but >>>>>>>>>>>> more a >>>>>>>>>>>> "bell curve" function. >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Difficult to say about unexplained moods; could be the result of >>>>>>>>>>>> chemical or homeostatic imbalances, tensions, unresolved mental >>>>>>>>>>>> phenomena, or any of a long list of things really; what do you >>>>>>>>>>>> think? >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 14, 12:46 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes- that is too technical for me. :-) I see the sc as the hidden >>>>>>>>>>>>> currents of a river- at least this morning that's my view. Where >>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>> you think imagination and creativity spring from? Or unexplainable >>>>>>>>>>>>> moods? Or the irrational? Don't be too technical, please. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 14, 3:36 am, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting psychoanalytic approach; i'm sort of a little closer >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the "technical" school; seems to me that dreams and phantasies >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty much the same "stuff" as conscious thought, but without >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> coherence, constraints, and "echolocation" of input, cognition, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the autobiographical self; in that sense, we think (neural >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mapping) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty much 24/7, conscious, subconscious, or otherwise; it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> just so >>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more elegant when we're conscious, or daydreaming, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> curiously :). >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Re the "great conductor"; in this great cauldron of distributed >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mapping, something has to "direct" and prioritise attention; >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the job of dispositional affect (value), or emotion, through >>>>>>>>>>>>>> amygdala, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hippocampus, and associated wide area networks. Antonio Damasio >>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>> produced some very interesting, very readable and easily >>>>>>>>>>>>>> accessible >>>>>>>>>>>>>> works in this area. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 13, 1:51 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "great conductor" to where? The sc may color our thoughts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actions but I have a problem giving it a thought process >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ego or super-ego. The fact that we cannot control our sc >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes us >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to control it- it can be dangerous or embarassing or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distracting, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for instance. I do think it adds a dramatic complexity to our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and actions- esp. those "Freudian slips"! :-) Another >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibilty is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the sc is a warehouse for our unresolved selves that pitch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> twist in our minds during dreams or daydreams and sometimes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> influence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solutions by interrupting logic, problem solving, comprehension >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relationships. It may also serve the purpose of keeping us >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honest- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somehow the mind has to find a balance- "acting as if" only >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 13, 5:13 am, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Mando, dont forget that our thoughts are also "merely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things", and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our sub-conscious also "thinks"; "emotion" is the great >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conductor. >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 12, 2:18 pm, Mando <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how are we easily swayed from our thought by merely things? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> humans are focused or controlled by the sub-conscious...- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hide quoted text - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >>>>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >>>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >>> - Show quoted text -
