“… can one truly have an "objective" filter (consciousness), free from all cultural influence?” – paradox
Yes, however rather than a ‘filter’ or ‘thinking’ in the normal sense, it is a state of consciousness. On Jul 22, 11:19 am, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > Yeah, i see what you mean OM; but can one truly have an "objective" > filter (consciousness), free from all cultural influence? If you mean > that we can "catch" ourselves thinking in stereotype, and compensate > accordingly, then i'm all aboard. > > On Jul 21, 7:33 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Paradox, in general, I agree with archy… at least to the majority of > > what is commonly called consciousness being but the Kool Aid of > > propaganda and other manifestations of trance. I also agree w/him that > > to wake up takes a lot of digging… reviewing memories, beliefs and > > notions not ‘real’ as well as nonsensical – rooting out how our > > individual (and group) ontological view was manufactured. Such pap can > > easily be shared…thus reacted to. > > > Side note: yes, I saw your smiley :D > > > On Jul 21, 10:06 am, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I'm confused, archytas (yes, i know, easily done); if consciousness > > > (as is generally accepted), or it's "substrate" (are you referring to > > > it's neurophysiology?) is "nonsense", then to what shall we credit the > > > great, often insightful, always engaging reactionary flourishes we > > > enjoy from your contributions? :) > > > > On Jul 20, 8:19 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Thanks for that Orn. My own working theory is that much of what we > > > > call consciousness is nonsense _ I mean its substrate is nonsense. > > > > I'm broadly materialist (though once we look at these labels they have > > > > less significance than some attribute to them) - so I tend to believe > > > > consciousness in an individual is part of an adjustment to culture > > > > built by others and that the individual may be able to bring > > > > creativity to that as well as conformity. If we do something like > > > > trying to remember a few numbers, it seems what we draw from memory > > > > also contains links to what else was about the numbers when we put > > > > them in memory. Much the same is true for me playing a few bars from > > > > Orn's link ( a good time in Lancaster). > > > > The idea of the sub-conscious gets difficult once you look at how > > > > people sway each other into false decisions and reasoning - it's > > > > clearly not easily placed as internal of a specific individual.. This > > > > turns out true of consciousness too - unless one goes to a lot of > > > > introspective 'effort'. > > > > > On Jul 20, 5:19 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > For the few from different eras and cultures, here is Peggy's original > > > > > "Fever"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGb5IweiYG8 > > > > > > On Jul 19, 6:39 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I was happy to find Peggy Lee recorded this song though I haven't > > > > > > heard it- I admired her voice along with Ella Fitzgerald's. This > > > > > > would > > > > > > be a great day for Lee's "Fever". We have a heat index of 113 F.!!! > > > > > > Anyway, I have a pretty good memory of lyrics as mother wasn't a > > > > > > storybook reader and the radio and 78 rpm records were my nursery > > > > > > songs and stories until the nuns read to us or I could read on my > > > > > > own. > > > > > > > On Jul 17, 1:18 pm, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Phew; got so caught up in your ballad, i was just about to > > > > > > > singalong, > > > > > > > caught myself just in time. Visions of my daughter's animated > > > > > > > exlamation..."Yes! I knew it! I told you so!" Lol. > > > > > > > > The admiration's mutual...what?? That does't sound right...? You > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > what i mean...: i think i need a lie down....lol. > > > > > > > > On Jul 17, 1:30 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I can admire men and still not want to be one! No, paradox, "I > > > > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > > > being a girl..." (song) > > > > > > > > > On Jul 16, 7:29 am, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > You dont know what you're missing, rigsy! lol. > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 16, 12:53 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I could never be a man- in body form or behavior. Thank > > > > > > > > > > you, Lord, for > > > > > > > > > > allowing me to be a female!!! :-) > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 15, 1:41 pm, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I have quite some considerable experience of the emotional > > > > > > > > > > > responsiveness of the fairer sex, rigsy :) Personally, i > > > > > > > > > > > think the > > > > > > > > > > > gender difference, if there is one, is more emotional > > > > > > > > > > > maturity and > > > > > > > > > > > honesty than anything "structural. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 15, 12:04 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, Tony and Paradox. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except we can clean up our hard drive! > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I should have said "reactions" rather than moods- > > > > > > > > > > > > esp. since > > > > > > > > > > > > females have the rep of being moody creatures. I'm not > > > > > > > > > > > > sure if it is > > > > > > > > > > > > memory or the sc that is triggered by irrational > > > > > > > > > > > > associations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 15, 3:22 am, paradox <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not as familiar with the terrain regarding > > > > > > > > > > > > > imagination and creativity, > > > > > > > > > > > > > rigsy; but some thoughts; imagination probably > > > > > > > > > > > > > employs the same object > > > > > > > > > > > > > representation and manipulation routines as event > > > > > > > > > > > > > "simulation", > > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly occupies the same higher order region; the > > > > > > > > > > > > > process is just > > > > > > > > > > > > > less well tethered; an analogy that comes to mind is > > > > > > > > > > > > > that of the rider > > > > > > > > > > > > > whose handling on the reins becomes more adept the > > > > > > > > > > > > > more confident he/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > she becomes, and the more conditioned the horse gets > > > > > > > > > > > > > over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Creativity is more difficult to pin down; my > > > > > > > > > > > > > intuitive sense is that > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's probably defined in the versatility of > > > > > > > > > > > > > transition of isomorphic > > > > > > > > > > > > > brain "states"; so its not so much a "discrete" > > > > > > > > > > > > > attribute, but more a > > > > > > > > > > > > > "bell curve" function. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Difficult to say about unexplained moods; could be > > > > > > > > > > > > > the result of > > > > > > > > > > > > > chemical or homeostatic imbalances, tensions, > > > > > > > > > > > > > unresolved mental > > > > > > > > > > > > > phenomena, or any of a long list of things really; > > > > > > > > > > > > > what do you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 14, 12:46 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes- that is too technical for me. :-) I see the sc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as the hidden > > > > > > > > > > > > > > currents of a river- at least this morning that's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my view. Where do > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you think imagination and creativity spring from? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or unexplainable > > > > > > > > > > > > > > moods? Or the irrational? Don't be too technical, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 14, 3:36 am, paradox <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting psychoanalytic approach; i'm sort of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a little closer to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the "technical" school; seems to me that dreams > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and phantasies are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pretty much the same "stuff" as conscious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thought, but without the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > coherence, constraints, and "echolocation" of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > input, cognition, and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the autobiographical self; in that sense, we > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think (neural mapping) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pretty much 24/7, conscious, subconscious, or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > otherwise; it's just so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > much more elegant when we're conscious, or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > daydreaming, curiously :). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re the "great conductor"; in this great cauldron > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of distributed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mapping, something has to "direct" and prioritise > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > attention; that's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the job of dispositional affect (value), or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > emotion, through amygdala, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hippocampus, and associated wide area networks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Antonio Damasio has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > produced some very interesting, very readable and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > easily accessible > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > works in this area. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 13, 1:51 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The "great conductor" to where? The sc may > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > color our thoughts and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > actions but I have a problem giving it a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thought process similar to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the ego or super-ego. The fact that we cannot > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > control our sc makes us > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > want to control it- it can be dangerous or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > embarassing or distracting, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for instance. I do think it adds a dramatic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > complexity to our thoughts > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and actions- esp. those "Freudian slips"! :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another possibilty is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that the sc is a warehouse for our unresolved > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > selves that pitch and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > twist in our minds during dreams or daydreams > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and sometimes influence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > solutions by interrupting logic, problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > solving, comprehension or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > relationships. It may also serve the purpose of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > keeping us honest- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > somehow the mind has to find a balance- "acting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as if" only goes so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > far. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 13, 5:13 am, paradox > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mando, dont forget that our thoughts are > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also "merely things", and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > our sub-conscious also "thinks"; "emotion" is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the great conductor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 12, 2:18 pm, Mando > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how are we easily swayed from our thought > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by merely things? is that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > humans are focused or > > ... > > read more »
