I agree with your assessment on Western work ethic/culture as it was but I fear it has changed dramatically in the last 50 years. We have become a "sumthin' fer nothin'" society of helpless weaklings. I fear the "ownership" society as promulgated by our ill fated gse mortgage boondoggles and subsequent crash have soured many on this concept of "ownership" as defined by our elected leaders. Even now there is talk of further bailing out of deadbeats rather then letting prices come down to more appropriate levels. It's frustrating.
Eastern culture as I've come to understand it is a more serf/lord relationship. The serf bows and scraps and works his ass off and the lord wears silks and "loves" his people and "protects" them with his armies and so forth. Do I have that about right? China has come out of this ancient culture somewhat and has a growing middle class. It's encouraging to see. India also, btw. I'm very excited about India's increasing industrial revolution. Too bad about this global funk India was really rising before all the troubles hit. Cheap labor is the key. dj On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 11:32 AM, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > The West admires those who push themselves to the top... that's how > they've structured their entire reward and punishment regime, and > their economics... marked by ownership. > > The East has always propagated and believed in abnegating oneself, > putting one's ego aside... marked by compassion... despite that alpha > tendency of raising and riding on the ego that nevertheless happened > all the time. > > These are TOTALLY different perspective to living, and values to guide > oneself by ! But the eastern way is possible, and perhaps the only way > out, if only China can unlearn its western ( marxist ) ideology ! > > On Oct 11, 5:17 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: > > I am currently reading Hoffer- books left "behind" by my ex while he > > has my copy of the libretto of "Tristan and Isolde" and Goethe's " The > > Sorrows of Young Werther", etc. Quite amusing, at this point, as he > > was a staunch Republican and I, an artsy type back in the 70's- > > perhaps we were trying on each others "shoes". The Hoffer books are > > "The True Believer", "The Passionate State of Mind" and "The Ordeal of > > Change" and I find "Believer" right on the mark re today's various > > protests- if one can truly call them that. > > > > By "manners", do you mean ettiquette? I think the function of both is > > to prevent humans from ripping each other apart- literally- and > > provide "space" to navigate society. > > > > The competition among humans is fierce and that's the myth of liberty/ > > democracy- since groups/ideologies are safer than independence and > > individuality. > > > > "Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for > > the lost faith in ourselves."//The less justified a man is in claiming > > excellence for his own self, the more ready is he to claim all > > excellence for his nation, his religion, his race or holy cause."// "A > > man is likely to mind his own business when it is worth > > minding."//"The burning conviction that we have a holy duty toward > > others is often a way of attaching our drowning selves to passing > > raft. What looks like giving a hand is often a holding on for dear > > life. Take away our holy duties and you leave our lives puny and > > meaningless. There is no doubt that in exchanging a self-centered for > > a selfless life we gain enormously in self-esteem. The vanity of the > > selfless even those who practice utmost humility, is boundless."// > > from "The True Believer"- Eric Hoffer > > > > Beyond these early quotes, I am reminded over and over again of > > Obama's style and appeal to the masses. Some things never change. > > > > On Oct 10, 6:24 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm always rather saddened when you bring up something like this rigsy > > > - only because our UK newspapers are so unlikely too. Civilisation > > > and Its Discontents is a key volume in my subject area, through > > > Melanie Klein and the Tavistock School. I tend to the view of Freud > > > in the eloquent link, though there was madness in his practice. My > > > own stuff tends towards the way 'manners' prevent a transparency of > > > interests (Elias, Veblen) and how much intellectual effort is wasted > > > in this. It's pretty obvious that the material could be a very small > > > part of human existence if we weren't in such competition in it. > > > > > On Oct 10, 7:03 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/freud-as-philosopher > > > > > > A lively essay, I felt, explained some conservative views well- on > > > > repression and self-restraint, ambivalence, emotional unawareness. > > > > Cheer up! He feels the "good life" consists of love and work- and I > > > > agree. > > > > > > Among works of Freud offered in one of my courses are "The Future of > > > > an Illusion" (religion and tradition) and "Civilization and Its > > > > Discontents" (individual vs. society). Perhaps others would like to > > > > discuss these books- very slim books but "meaty". > > > > > > Or we could delve into some Eric Hoffer?Or get carried away with > > > > Lenin's "State and Revolution"?- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text - >
