The boredom endemic in UK academe led me to travel away to conferences for respite. The idea was to find conferences in exotic places and fit my work to that conference. For some reason I got involved with followers of Norbert Elias (various books - all the same as far as I could gather) - one might say his notion of society could be deduced from 13th century French table manners - such stuff as to when it was appropriate to blow one's nose on the tablecloth. Pretty much as you suggest rigsy. I'm really a biochemist, but quickly found social scientists can say anything if they reference key figures like Freud and the postmodern lot (Foucault, Lyotard, Baudrillard, Mouffe,Lacan and other wasters). One of my spoofs followed Sokal's famous hoax at Social Text and went unnoticed as such. It was the story of 'the bulldung engine' full of phrases like 'writing degree Xerox' and 'hexiplex hermeneutic' (really Rubik's Cube). There are many insights in Freud but much of the elaboration is no good without the dramatic edge of, say, Colonel Reidel or Mephisto.
On Oct 12, 12:01 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > I'm not sure we really admire those who climb the greasy pole. Most > of us regard our politicians with derision. There is a propaganda > that equates to what Vam says but belief in it is hardly ubiquitous. > There's a tribe in Papua NG who make a point of deriding their leaders >The boerdom and anyone bidding for it. I regard the rich as looting, immoral > scum. Meritocracy sounds OK until you see how it really works > (there's an old book by Michael Young that Blair used to quote which > really slagged the concept and practice). > The truth as I meet it is that we could and should change to a greener > notion of economics in which work has a different base than at present > and we accumulate social capital instead of money. The keys are > people being free and motivated to do the necessary work and to be > creative. Even in the latter we are currently conned that money is > the motivator - people are more inventive away from work incentives. > > On Oct 11, 6:33 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I agree with your assessment on Western work ethic/culture as it was but I > > fear it has changed dramatically in the last 50 years. We have become a > > "sumthin' fer nothin'" society of helpless weaklings. I fear the "ownership" > > society as promulgated by our ill fated gse mortgage boondoggles and > > subsequent crash have soured many on this concept of "ownership" as defined > > by our elected leaders. Even now there is talk of further bailing out of > > deadbeats rather then letting prices come down to more appropriate levels. > > It's frustrating. > > > Eastern culture as I've come to understand it is a more serf/lord > > relationship. The serf bows and scraps and works his ass off and the lord > > wears silks and "loves" his people and "protects" them with his armies and > > so forth. Do I have that about right? China has come out of this ancient > > culture somewhat and has a growing middle class. It's encouraging to see. > > India also, btw. I'm very excited about India's increasing industrial > > revolution. Too bad about this global funk India was really rising before > > all the troubles hit. Cheap labor is the key. > > > dj > > > On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 11:32 AM, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > The West admires those who push themselves to the top... that's how > > > they've structured their entire reward and punishment regime, and > > > their economics... marked by ownership. > > > > The East has always propagated and believed in abnegating oneself, > > > putting one's ego aside... marked by compassion... despite that alpha > > > tendency of raising and riding on the ego that nevertheless happened > > > all the time. > > > > These are TOTALLY different perspective to living, and values to guide > > > oneself by ! But the eastern way is possible, and perhaps the only way > > > out, if only China can unlearn its western ( marxist ) ideology ! > > > > On Oct 11, 5:17 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I am currently reading Hoffer- books left "behind" by my ex while he > > > > has my copy of the libretto of "Tristan and Isolde" and Goethe's " The > > > > Sorrows of Young Werther", etc. Quite amusing, at this point, as he > > > > was a staunch Republican and I, an artsy type back in the 70's- > > > > perhaps we were trying on each others "shoes". The Hoffer books are > > > > "The True Believer", "The Passionate State of Mind" and "The Ordeal of > > > > Change" and I find "Believer" right on the mark re today's various > > > > protests- if one can truly call them that. > > > > > By "manners", do you mean ettiquette? I think the function of both is > > > > to prevent humans from ripping each other apart- literally- and > > > > provide "space" to navigate society. > > > > > The competition among humans is fierce and that's the myth of liberty/ > > > > democracy- since groups/ideologies are safer than independence and > > > > individuality. > > > > > "Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for > > > > the lost faith in ourselves."//The less justified a man is in claiming > > > > excellence for his own self, the more ready is he to claim all > > > > excellence for his nation, his religion, his race or holy cause."// "A > > > > man is likely to mind his own business when it is worth > > > > minding."//"The burning conviction that we have a holy duty toward > > > > others is often a way of attaching our drowning selves to passing > > > > raft. What looks like giving a hand is often a holding on for dear > > > > life. Take away our holy duties and you leave our lives puny and > > > > meaningless. There is no doubt that in exchanging a self-centered for > > > > a selfless life we gain enormously in self-esteem. The vanity of the > > > > selfless even those who practice utmost humility, is boundless."// > > > > from "The True Believer"- Eric Hoffer > > > > > Beyond these early quotes, I am reminded over and over again of > > > > Obama's style and appeal to the masses. Some things never change. > > > > > On Oct 10, 6:24 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I'm always rather saddened when you bring up something like this rigsy > > > > > - only because our UK newspapers are so unlikely too. Civilisation > > > > > and Its Discontents is a key volume in my subject area, through > > > > > Melanie Klein and the Tavistock School. I tend to the view of Freud > > > > > in the eloquent link, though there was madness in his practice. My > > > > > own stuff tends towards the way 'manners' prevent a transparency of > > > > > interests (Elias, Veblen) and how much intellectual effort is wasted > > > > > in this. It's pretty obvious that the material could be a very small > > > > > part of human existence if we weren't in such competition in it. > > > > > > On Oct 10, 7:03 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/freud-as-philosopher > > > > > > > A lively essay, I felt, explained some conservative views well- on > > > > > > repression and self-restraint, ambivalence, emotional unawareness. > > > > > > Cheer up! He feels the "good life" consists of love and work- and I > > > > > > agree. > > > > > > > Among works of Freud offered in one of my courses are "The Future of > > > > > > an Illusion" (religion and tradition) and "Civilization and Its > > > > > > Discontents" (individual vs. society). Perhaps others would like to > > > > > > discuss these books- very slim books but "meaty". > > > > > > > Or we could delve into some Eric Hoffer?Or get carried away with > > > > > > Lenin's "State and Revolution"?- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
