I would like to understand what you are saying, Vam. Where is the cooling thoughts within all this "chaos"? Do not judge? I'm afraid I'm not getting your point yet. I hope you will enlighten me. Thank you for your patience with me.
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > " I need to learn more about Eastern ways. I have read some things but > have not really integrated them into practice and thinking. I am > intrigued." > > Don came back with a stereotype pic of India. I found it too idiotic a > start to take it forward. > > People who visit India say they are " overwhelmed !" When there's > everything around you, anybody would be overcome. When you see conmen > and that fakir who'd pee on piled billions without a thought... it > simply becomes inexplicable... the poorest slum before the richest > mansion in the world, and the integration flowing in between, before > our eye, make it impossible to reduce the world, life and being to > black and white images. Judgement then would only add to the chaos ! > > So much misery and so many smiles... it's a chaos that works all > right. But if it doesn't blow up in a million mutinies, the credit > must go to those cooling thoughts from millenia before that spread all > over from Asia Minor, Central, East and Far East. > > Welcome to Eastern Thought ! > > On Oct 13, 6:41 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Some Protestant religions equated material success with God's favor so > > that also played a part but yes- the West loves its rags-to-riches > > darlings, consider those who succeed have the right ambition and > > virtues- it's rather like a sport, isn't it? I seem to be missing a > > profit incentive in my genetic make-up- my parents were fiercely > > materialistic but then I think they had seen the Great Depression with > > their own eyes even though they were doing fine during the 30's- like > > one of those peppy films. Yet ownership has risks because you are > > stuck and culture-laws-wars can turn life upside down so mother saved > > string and rubber bands as well as a slew of dire warnings. :-) > > > > I need to learn more about Eastern ways. I have read some things but > > have not really integrated them into practice and thinking. I am > > intrigued. > > > > On Oct 11, 11:32 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The West admires those who push themselves to the top... that's how > > > they've structured their entire reward and punishment regime, and > > > their economics... marked by ownership. > > > > > The East has always propagated and believed in abnegating oneself, > > > putting one's ego aside... marked by compassion... despite that alpha > > > tendency of raising and riding on the ego that nevertheless happened > > > all the time. > > > > > These are TOTALLY different perspective to living, and values to guide > > > oneself by ! But the eastern way is possible, and perhaps the only way > > > out, if only China can unlearn its western ( marxist ) ideology ! > > > > > On Oct 11, 5:17 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I am currently reading Hoffer- books left "behind" by my ex while he > > > > has my copy of the libretto of "Tristan and Isolde" and Goethe's " > The > > > > Sorrows of Young Werther", etc. Quite amusing, at this point, as he > > > > was a staunch Republican and I, an artsy type back in the 70's- > > > > perhaps we were trying on each others "shoes". The Hoffer books are > > > > "The True Believer", "The Passionate State of Mind" and "The Ordeal > of > > > > Change" and I find "Believer" right on the mark re today's various > > > > protests- if one can truly call them that. > > > > > > By "manners", do you mean ettiquette? I think the function of both is > > > > to prevent humans from ripping each other apart- literally- and > > > > provide "space" to navigate society. > > > > > > The competition among humans is fierce and that's the myth of > liberty/ > > > > democracy- since groups/ideologies are safer than independence and > > > > individuality. > > > > > > "Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for > > > > the lost faith in ourselves."//The less justified a man is in > claiming > > > > excellence for his own self, the more ready is he to claim all > > > > excellence for his nation, his religion, his race or holy cause."// > "A > > > > man is likely to mind his own business when it is worth > > > > minding."//"The burning conviction that we have a holy duty toward > > > > others is often a way of attaching our drowning selves to passing > > > > raft. What looks like giving a hand is often a holding on for dear > > > > life. Take away our holy duties and you leave our lives puny and > > > > meaningless. There is no doubt that in exchanging a self-centered for > > > > a selfless life we gain enormously in self-esteem. The vanity of the > > > > selfless even those who practice utmost humility, is boundless."// > > > > from "The True Believer"- Eric Hoffer > > > > > > Beyond these early quotes, I am reminded over and over again of > > > > Obama's style and appeal to the masses. Some things never change. > > > > > > On Oct 10, 6:24 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I'm always rather saddened when you bring up something like this > rigsy > > > > > - only because our UK newspapers are so unlikely too. Civilisation > > > > > and Its Discontents is a key volume in my subject area, through > > > > > Melanie Klein and the Tavistock School. I tend to the view of > Freud > > > > > in the eloquent link, though there was madness in his practice. My > > > > > own stuff tends towards the way 'manners' prevent a transparency of > > > > > interests (Elias, Veblen) and how much intellectual effort is > wasted > > > > > in this. It's pretty obvious that the material could be a very > small > > > > > part of human existence if we weren't in such competition in it. > > > > > > > On Oct 10, 7:03 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/freud-as-philosopher > > > > > > > > A lively essay, I felt, explained some conservative views well- > on > > > > > > repression and self-restraint, ambivalence, emotional > unawareness. > > > > > > Cheer up! He feels the "good life" consists of love and work- and > I > > > > > > agree. > > > > > > > > Among works of Freud offered in one of my courses are "The Future > of > > > > > > an Illusion" (religion and tradition) and "Civilization and Its > > > > > > Discontents" (individual vs. society). Perhaps others would like > to > > > > > > discuss these books- very slim books but "meaty". > > > > > > > > Or we could delve into some Eric Hoffer?Or get carried away with > > > > > > Lenin's "State and Revolution"?- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text - >
