The first two could be elegance of line and material; the second set is do-able if you can retreat from the worldliness.
What about joy and humor? Are the cultures too formal and ritualistic? Yet- they like the sound of slurped noodles which makes me smile. On Oct 13, 10:28 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > Eastern thought : > > Manifest plainness > Embrace simplicity > Reduce selfishness > Have few desires. > > ~ Lao Tzu ~ > > On Oct 13, 6:27 pm, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > When and where did you come across a protest by more than a million > > people against the govt of the day, without a single instance of > > violence or bloodshed... to the point when the govt had to bend and > > give in, further brought to its knees and accede to people's demand ? > > > It happened here. Why ? Because everybody can relate to something > > inviolable in our learning from our past, acquired over millenia ! > > > As I said... I can't fathom a society beset with a million miseries > > that can still radiate a million smiles, where people without means > > and expectations still mean well of others, still find something > > valuable about themselves and their life to be helpful towards others, > > still look up to the sun in the hopeless mornings, and to the moon in > > the unbearable nights, and say to themselves, " All is well !" > > > It's a society where the worldly and the other-worldly is so enmeshed > > in each other that people easily transit from one to the other... it's > > revealing of the "cooling thoughts" I previously spoke about. > > > On Oct 13, 12:22 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I would like to understand what you are saying, Vam. Where is the cooling > > > thoughts within all this "chaos"? Do not judge? I'm afraid I'm not getting > > > your point yet. I hope you will enlighten me. Thank you for your patience > > > with me. > > > > On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:10 AM, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > " I need to learn more about Eastern ways. I have read some things but > > > > have not really integrated them into practice and thinking. I am > > > > intrigued." > > > > > Don came back with a stereotype pic of India. I found it too idiotic a > > > > start to take it forward. > > > > > People who visit India say they are " overwhelmed !" When there's > > > > everything around you, anybody would be overcome. When you see conmen > > > > and that fakir who'd pee on piled billions without a thought... it > > > > simply becomes inexplicable... the poorest slum before the richest > > > > mansion in the world, and the integration flowing in between, before > > > > our eye, make it impossible to reduce the world, life and being to > > > > black and white images. Judgement then would only add to the chaos ! > > > > > So much misery and so many smiles... it's a chaos that works all > > > > right. But if it doesn't blow up in a million mutinies, the credit > > > > must go to those cooling thoughts from millenia before that spread all > > > > over from Asia Minor, Central, East and Far East. > > > > > Welcome to Eastern Thought ! > > > > > On Oct 13, 6:41 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Some Protestant religions equated material success with God's favor so > > > > > that also played a part but yes- the West loves its rags-to-riches > > > > > darlings, consider those who succeed have the right ambition and > > > > > virtues- it's rather like a sport, isn't it? I seem to be missing a > > > > > profit incentive in my genetic make-up- my parents were fiercely > > > > > materialistic but then I think they had seen the Great Depression with > > > > > their own eyes even though they were doing fine during the 30's- like > > > > > one of those peppy films. Yet ownership has risks because you are > > > > > stuck and culture-laws-wars can turn life upside down so mother saved > > > > > string and rubber bands as well as a slew of dire warnings. :-) > > > > > > I need to learn more about Eastern ways. I have read some things but > > > > > have not really integrated them into practice and thinking. I am > > > > > intrigued. > > > > > > On Oct 11, 11:32 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > The West admires those who push themselves to the top... that's how > > > > > > they've structured their entire reward and punishment regime, and > > > > > > their economics... marked by ownership. > > > > > > > The East has always propagated and believed in abnegating oneself, > > > > > > putting one's ego aside... marked by compassion... despite that > > > > > > alpha > > > > > > tendency of raising and riding on the ego that nevertheless happened > > > > > > all the time. > > > > > > > These are TOTALLY different perspective to living, and values to > > > > > > guide > > > > > > oneself by ! But the eastern way is possible, and perhaps the only > > > > > > way > > > > > > out, if only China can unlearn its western ( marxist ) ideology ! > > > > > > > On Oct 11, 5:17 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I am currently reading Hoffer- books left "behind" by my ex while > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > has my copy of the libretto of "Tristan and Isolde" and Goethe's " > > > > The > > > > > > > Sorrows of Young Werther", etc. Quite amusing, at this point, as > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > was a staunch Republican and I, an artsy type back in the 70's- > > > > > > > perhaps we were trying on each others "shoes". The Hoffer books > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > "The True Believer", "The Passionate State of Mind" and "The > > > > > > > Ordeal > > > > of > > > > > > > Change" and I find "Believer" right on the mark re today's various > > > > > > > protests- if one can truly call them that. > > > > > > > > By "manners", do you mean ettiquette? I think the function of > > > > > > > both is > > > > > > > to prevent humans from ripping each other apart- literally- and > > > > > > > provide "space" to navigate society. > > > > > > > > The competition among humans is fierce and that's the myth of > > > > liberty/ > > > > > > > democracy- since groups/ideologies are safer than independence and > > > > > > > individuality. > > > > > > > > "Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > the lost faith in ourselves."//The less justified a man is in > > > > claiming > > > > > > > excellence for his own self, the more ready is he to claim all > > > > > > > excellence for his nation, his religion, his race or holy > > > > > > > cause."// > > > > "A > > > > > > > man is likely to mind his own business when it is worth > > > > > > > minding."//"The burning conviction that we have a holy duty toward > > > > > > > others is often a way of attaching our drowning selves to passing > > > > > > > raft. What looks like giving a hand is often a holding on for dear > > > > > > > life. Take away our holy duties and you leave our lives puny and > > > > > > > meaningless. There is no doubt that in exchanging a self-centered > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > a selfless life we gain enormously in self-esteem. The vanity of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > selfless even those who practice utmost humility, is boundless."// > > > > > > > from "The True Believer"- Eric Hoffer > > > > > > > > Beyond these early quotes, I am reminded over and over again of > > > > > > > Obama's style and appeal to the masses. Some things never change. > > > > > > > > On Oct 10, 6:24 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'm always rather saddened when you bring up something like this > > > > rigsy > > > > > > > > - only because our UK newspapers are so unlikely too. > > > > > > > > Civilisation > > > > > > > > and Its Discontents is a key volume in my subject area, through > > > > > > > > Melanie Klein and the Tavistock School. I tend to the view of > > > > Freud > > > > > > > > in the eloquent link, though there was madness in his practice. > > > > > > > > My > > > > > > > > own stuff tends towards the way 'manners' prevent a > > > > > > > > transparency of > > > > > > > > interests (Elias, Veblen) and how much intellectual effort is > > > > wasted > > > > > > > > in this. It's pretty obvious that the material could be a very > > > > small > > > > > > > > part of human existence if we weren't in such competition in it. > > > > > > > > > On Oct 10, 7:03 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > >http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/freud-as-philosopher > > > > > > > > > > A lively essay, I felt, explained some conservative views > > > > > > > > > well- > > > > on > > > > > > > > > repression and self-restraint, ambivalence, emotional > > > > unawareness. > > > > > > > > > Cheer up! He feels the "good life" consists of love and work- > > > > > > > > > and > > > > I > > > > > > > > > agree. > > > > > > > > > > Among works of Freud offered in one of my courses are "The > > > > > > > > > Future > > > > of > > > > > > > > > an Illusion" (religion and tradition) and "Civilization and > > > > > > > > > Its > > > > > > > > > Discontents" (individual vs. society). Perhaps others would > > > > > > > > > like > > > > to > > > > > > > > > discuss these books- very slim books but "meaty". > > > > > > > > > > Or we could delve into some Eric Hoffer?Or get carried away > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > Lenin's "State and Revolution"?- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
