what is it you want Gabby?
Allan

On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 4:50 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote:

> Dawn. The Golden Dawn. In between light and darkness there is The Golden
> Dawn. And the question is: Who is going to own our future generations.
> The Scandinavians have already bought a lot of our houses ...
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> when a person gets looking at trust money it gets very scary when you
>> look at them from the long term..  example  in dollars because
>> the symbol is on my computer
>>
>> $1,000.oo    3% interest added annually
>> for
>> 50 years        value will be  $ 4,383.91
>> 100 years      value will be  $ 19.2818. 63
>> Now what gets scary is this. leave the same $1,000.oo in for;;
>> ready
>> 500 years.     value will be $ 2,621,877,234.--
>>
>> Now that is some serious money even I can come up with that thousand in
>> cash..
>>
>> Indecently that is why there are laws against perpetual trusts...   (",)
>>
>> to prevent major universities from extreme wealth..
>>
>> but that would not keep a ?Secret? society from doing it.... ah the
>> secret society of "The Golden Calf."
>> It is shear madness.. but easily do able when you look in the long term..
>>  now just look at adding several zeros to the original 1,000  and see what
>> happens..
>> which countries do we want our future generations to  Own??
>> Allan
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 3:34 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree most of that Allan.  We could have banks small enough to
>>> compete for our business with very little regulation.  On the current
>>> banks - it's doubtful many are really worth anything.
>>>
>>> On Oct 22, 1:45 pm, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> > Back to what I was saying,,  I see a society today including bankerism
>>> that
>>> > is based an economy based off debt..  As I see it a trust that could
>>> be set
>>> > up that (actually split as to not draw attention) it could be used to
>>> help
>>> > people, I am thinking about a small economy   strictly toursit based
>>> where
>>> > it could be used to help people  doing things like develop wind
>>> generators
>>> >  then selling the power to pay for themselves and at the same time
>>> grow the
>>> > fund..  other things like building vertical green houses  for supplying
>>> > food to make sure every one ate..
>>> >
>>> > I do not think charity is a way to go,,  but   the process of growing a
>>> > business designed to help people  is not to bad..  it can get into
>>> things
>>> > like the skycat and transporting goods across oceans  to pay for
>>> themselves
>>> > and grow the trust,,   when it came to times like the big earth quakes
>>> and
>>> > natural disasters,,  where the could be actually flown into
>>> > the disaster areas to supply aid directly  ..  helping to keep it out
>>> of
>>> > the corruption cycle.
>>> >
>>> > As the trust fund{s} grew they could actually buy out the greed banks
>>> stock
>>> >  taking them over.. ending the cycle that way..
>>> >
>>> > Transferring the economy from a debt economy to a stable debt free
>>> > economy..  you will be well on your way to ending Bankerism..  It can
>>> be
>>> > done simple because they are based on debt,,  remember a share
>>> actually sez
>>> > they owe you money..
>>> >
>>> > Allan
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Allan H <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>> > > Thank you for the ideas Neil,,  I for one actually believe
>>> ?bankerism? can
>>> > > be controlled but not necessarily with regulations.. It is well
>>> known and I
>>> > > think it was discussed here on the financial power of the trust fund
>>> > >  especially non-expiring ones,,  to the point that they are
>>> regulated by
>>> > > the government requiring them to spend the interest..  I have to run
>>>   I
>>> > > will get back to this when I return..
>>> > > Allan
>>> >
>>> > > On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 10:37 PM, archytas <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > >> My guess is that modern rationality starts with Descartes - though
>>> he
>>> > >> doesn't provide a template, just some ground we can get into the
>>> > >> issues through.  The great warnings to us on 'solutions' is real
>>> > >> history and the failure of Germany as the most cultured and
>>> scientific
>>> > >> nation culminating in "Hitler" - the lesson being so-called triumphs
>>> > >> in rationality, science and culture are dreadful fantasies.  I would
>>> > >> hope in this that German friends would not see any blaming in this -
>>> > >> the culpability is wider-set in imperialism and our still stupid
>>> > >> notions of leadership.  In intellectual terms we are supposedly in
>>> > >> postmoderism (really read that and weep in a different way from
>>> > >> Gabby's sonnet).  The crisis is one of legitimation and the need for
>>> > >> an incredulous stance towards grand narratives like religion and the
>>> > >> 'wealth creation' espoused in the status quo of oligarchy (rather
>>> than
>>> > >> competitive capitalism).
>>> >
>>> > >> I'd say the big issue is dishonesty and the ease with which we
>>> swallow
>>> > >> chronic lies whole as the facts stand up against them.  The idiocy
>>> is
>>> > >> in demanding paragons of virtue in politics.  Honesty is not so
>>> easily
>>> > >> produced.  As a population we remain crudely ignorant and
>>> politicians
>>> > >> can rely on this.  I can prove over and again that voters don't know
>>> > >> what they vote for - the result being my regard as a smartarse,
>>> > >> "commie" or whatever suits.  We get bogged down by popular opinion
>>> > >> (Idols in Bacon) and inane rationalist fantasies as to whether god
>>> > >> exists or not to which there is only 'answer' in sentient (Hume).
>>>  We
>>> > >> rightly point to failures in communism whilst failing to spot we
>>> have
>>> > >> already been carried away in the anti-communism (even
>>> anti-democratic
>>> > >> management - see the use of the UnAmerican stuff against quite mild
>>> > >> adherents of such) that drives our resources into the hands of a
>>> tiny
>>> > >> few, leaving even 1 in 5 Americans poor etc. and wars all over -let
>>> > >> alone poverty through massive over-breeding and climate change.
>>> >
>>> > >> The answer is a massive change in our ways, including
>>> world-government
>>> > >> - but the rub here is this can't involve the kind of people doing
>>> > >> politics at the whim of banksterism and it does mean not allowing
>>> > >> 'riches' as currently conceived, which many think 'fair' owing to
>>> > >> propaganda.  The statement on population ignorance itself needs
>>> review
>>> > >> as it can't itself be just another bid for leadership and power.  On
>>> > >> the odd occasion I do chemistry for schoolkids I do experiments that
>>> > >> go bang, flash light and then a tame one in which heating Lead
>>> > >> Carbonate turns it yellow before it melts.  The kids rarely
>>> understand
>>> > >> (which isn't the point).  Teaching economics is much the same in
>>> > >> result - most end up with no clue and would need to be in intensive
>>> > >> educational care to get a grok.  I am much more confident in my
>>> > >> scientific prognostications than on those of how we should live and
>>> a
>>> > >> viable economics.  Yet the world of science is much less
>>> authoritarian
>>> > >> than that of public opinion, despite the techniques being much more
>>> > >> reliable.  If you don't want to listen properly on how to make,say,
>>> > >> gunpowder - then you're free to blow your hands off.  Yet how do I
>>> > >> tell anyone not to have children in excess?  Recruit Indira Gandhi?
>>> > >> How do we get work done - sit around drinking tea voting?
>>> >
>>> > >> The basic idea is often to get everyone up to western standards -
>>> yet
>>> > >> what 'standard' do we offer?  Planet burning firsts?  A model that
>>> has
>>> > >> always favoured a few rich with a minor blip after WW2 and is as
>>> debt-
>>> > >> ridden as ancient Mesopotamia?  A big part of the answer is the
>>> > >> setting up of complex regulation that prevents undue power
>>> accretion.
>>> > >> The human tendency in this is towards bureaucracy and that runs
>>> into n
>>> > >> iron cage (Weber).  I believe computing offers new avenues -but we'd
>>> > >> have to guard against this being perverted in the usual ways.  The
>>> key
>>> > >> roadblock is world peace and not believing we could have it and the
>>> > >> daft assumption just laying down our 'guns' would produce it.
>>> >
>>> > >> There's a massive literature that could help - the problem being few
>>> > >> read and would even watch if our media could summarise it. Should I
>>> > >> issue a bibliography?  This doesn't even work at university.
>>> >
>>> > >> The first solution is getting resources into individual and
>>> collective
>>> > >> control with banking as a utility (rather than designed to steal
>>> them
>>> > >> as happens now even with micro-credit).  This itself should produce
>>> > >> enough argument to fill several books - but watch this space.  The
>>> > >> move is broadly capitalist but anti-oligarchy pro-democracy in the
>>> > >> sense of (Popper's) control of those allocated 'power'.  Questions
>>> > >> immediately arise as to what is not allowable - like a bunch of
>>> > >> Taliban mistreating women and trying to build an H-bomb or burning
>>> > >> coal for the hell of it.
>>> >
>>> > >> To see this as other than 'castle-in-the-air' one needs an
>>> > >> understanding of social economics and the mad stuff of the
>>> mainstream
>>> > >> and what its results are.  This requires a lot of negation
>>> -something
>>> > >> widely perceived (still, long after science) perceived as negative
>>> > >> because of Idols.  Rigsy started a thread on Freud in which this and
>>> > >> the paranoid-schizoid and 'depressive' positions could have been
>>> > >> explored.  This level of intellectualism can even lead to 'academic
>>> > >> bullying' claims in universities in these dumbed-down days.  A good
>>> > >> start would be Naomi Klein's 'Shock Doctrine' would be a start, but
>>> > >> only a start (you can get it on Movshare and the like).
>>> >
>>> > >> I'm much more positive than most people I know in spirit, from
>>> running
>>> > >> myself into the ground and desperate tackles to trying new stuff.
>>>  One
>>> > >> meets this negative stuff everywhere from underperforming sports
>>> teams
>>> > >> to simple changes like not buying vastly over priced ink and toner
>>> and
>>> > >> getting advice from the data protection officer that means don't put
>>> > >> anything on your project website.  The 'highly positive', of course
>>> > >> ain't going through the Pillars of Hercules because they'll fall off
>>> > >> the edge.  The positive question is nearly always 'what junk are we
>>> in
>>> > >> thrall to now' - what is today's "flat earth theory".  The big
>>> > >> challenge isn't ignorance but incompetence even to the point of not
>>> > >> recognising one's own. The arguments many think they take part in
>>> are
>>> > >> carefully structured inside highly parochial propaganda (Idols).
>>> > >> Rather than learning through gleaning the facts, most people just
>>> > >> reinforce there dullard positions - this means you (or me if I don't
>>> > >> check myself).
>>> >
>>> > >> Most, even in this group,lack enough knowledge to have more than
>>> mere
>>> > >> opinion, whether on how to make TNT or understand what the banking
>>> > >> crisis is.  Much of what I say won't work would not be negative if
>>> you
>>> > >> knew more, but seen as pointing to reasons for radical change.
>>> > >> Classic moves include atheism meaning I must lack morality or am not
>>> > >> open-minded about god possibilities - you know the form.  With, say,
>>> > >> nitroglycerin manufacture you can leave it to me (at a safe
>>> distance)
>>> > >> - but why are we generally so reluctant to learn what is available
>>> on
>>> > >> ideological and economic-practical issues?  What model of the
>>> positive
>>> > >> do you guys work with - Mollyarian letting fear slip away (which is
>>> > >> complex in her elaborations, not barking), how would you get across
>>> a
>>> > >> street under fire (the answer is you don't unless there is no
>>> > >> alternative) - how do you assess what is negative?
>>> >
>>> > >> Many of the issues discussed in groups like this are deeply
>>> > >> constrained because most people don't study and have false views on
>>> > >> fact.  I see this as key in developing 'democracy' - I'm
>>> anti-democrat
>>> > >> in the same terms as Joseph Heller's lovely book - but how many have
>>> > >> read it and would recognise I'm not being negative but asking for a
>>> > >> review of the ideas and practices for better, wider control of
>>> > >> authority and how we might achieve it?  Try making nitro by just
>>> > >> bunging the constituents
>>> >
>>> > ...
>>> >
>>> > read more ยป
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>  (
>>   )
>> |_D Allan
>>
>> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
 (
  )
|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

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