Good to see you two buddies agree on your own morality of selling. How are things going behind the scenes?
On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 8:36 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > Have to agree Chris. We have vicars resigning over OccX around St. > Pauls. We once had Wycliffe preaching that Christ did not own the > clothes he wore (13th century) - they dug up his bones and burned them > for 'saying' that. Rigsy sounds like the 'pious' passer-by on this > topic - something that doesn't fit with my feelings about her. we > watched while they took away the disabled, then the gypsies, then the > nay sayers and then the Jews -who would be left when they came for us > sort of stuff. > I'm honestly getting round to thinking what I normally consider as > conspiracy (I prosecuted a lot of people for conspiracy) may be true > rather than just a good yarn - Churchill as a bag man for JP Morgan, > Blair the same and the USA merely a pawn in the rise of banksterism > that could see more profit in a US empire it could control than in > various species of European imperialism. > > The key positive is ensuring decent living standards for all that are > also about changing how we consume, breed and other 'green' nettles we > hardly dare admit let alone grasp. The combination of education and > the kind of medical treatment that stops kids dying works in > population control (with remarkably few exceptions - both sexes give > up pressurised breed if they know the kids they do have will live. We > do not need to produce more and more idiot western lifestyles and we > don't really (mostly) live them anyway. In terms of 'work' I doubt > more than a few modern westerners have much clue what it is and has > been for many. I've come across many wuckfits who believe their 9 - 4 > in the office was hard graft. Most of what's being done now is > neurotic or serf-like. The morality of selling is almost non- > existent. > > On Oct 31, 12:45 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > I think it's passive to say that current economics doesn't provide > > much...rather, the current economics provides strong incentives to treat > > others poorly. Agents Provocateur are the order of the day in #OWS: > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VIpIKrh7Z8 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 12:39 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Sorry about the lapsed video link. They are around on the net. I > > > suspect the machine is banking and war and we suppose it something > > > other. I'm not sure we are free as rigsy says - rather just lucky to > > > be free of interesting times. I was thinking of Camus watching some > > > stuff on OccupyX - > > > > >http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/ows-guest-post-denver-police-u. > .. > > > > > High in the list of my values is the treatment of others (which in a > > > sense is elitist) and I don't believe current economics provides > > > much. It seems to me many have forgotten that their freedoms were won > > > bu others, > > > > > On Oct 30, 11:55 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > "Even God cannot change the past." Agathon (448 B.C.-400 B.C.) > > > > > > We are eventually free to establish our own values and lifestyle- if > > > > we are lucky- and it sounds as if you are one of the lucky ones as we > > > > type on computers constructed via slave labor to communicate our > > > > opinions and struggles. > > > > > > Around the beginning of the 20th Century, manufacturers accepted the > > > > idea of making products that would soon be obsolete and need to be > > > > replaced rather than repaired which has resulted in a toss-away > > > > consumer society that is drenched in wastefulness. I think the idea > > > > was first promoted by advertisers who were eager for steady income. > > > > Replacement has become a broader fact- from mates to warfare. > > > > > > On Oct 29, 11:01 pm, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I don't recall the exact quote from Camus, Neil, in his "Rebel"... > > > > > > > We are living in times when the same usurpers, oligarchs, power > > > > > brokers, Free Capitalists and State Capitalists... use values that > > > > > appeal to people, take positions that make people feel good, > espouse > > > > > causes and show generosities... when all that is on their mind is > how > > > > > to extract more from the people, how to make laws more capital, > > > > > priviledged and owner friendly ( yeah, the fkg Motor Act in India > is > > > > > still of colonial vantage, when the motors on the roads were owned > > > > > mainly by the British... you don't need to commit any murders at > all, > > > > > just mow them on the road, and escape with at most as light a > sentence > > > > > as mere 2 years of simple imprisonment ! ), how to consolidate and > > > > > cartelise the supply chain or distribution structures for essential > > > > > commodities, so as to create scarcities and raise prices at will... > > > > > control power... control money... control legislation... control > > > > > supply and demand... control... > > > > > > > As a result, people have come to believe that the 80% of the > economy > > > > > looped in to serve 20% of the population is alright, that > millionaires > > > > > constituting 50% of People's Representatives is alright, that > there is > > > > > something sacrosanct about property and shall-do-as-I-wish rights, > > > > > that accepting money means that people have to surrender their > freedom > > > > > and needless dignity, that basketfuls of cake and food reject in > waste > > > > > bin from wealthy mansions is okay when thousands are hungry... and > if > > > > > you stand to question and protest over such gross social > inequality, > > > > > such political misrepresentation, such blatant economic inequity... > > > > > you are actually shown the law, the law and order enforcement > might, > > > > > the feudal norms and ethics, and told "look at the others, how they > > > > > are not about creating problems" ! > > > > > > > You then have only one option... which you will soon be advised > even > > > > > by your parents and well-wishers... to join them. After all, even > you > > > > > have it all... if you study and work hard, with dedication... et > al. > > > > > > > The fun starts, rather the mayhem, when you see no reason to join > > > > > them, to have all that "they" have. At that stage you have already > > > > > discovered the new paradigm for yourself. It happened with me in > > > > > 1997... when I looked up to my boss' position and clearly saw that > I > > > > > didn't want it ! Lived hand to mouth for about 2 years... made > demands > > > > > on friends without a qualm... until the consulting work got > > > > > acknowledged... and then I've practically retired for an otherwise > > > > > very active life. > > > > > > > On Oct 30, 4:32 am, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Sorry your video is currently not available.. will try later I > did > > > some > > > > > > looking up to understand the raping of Nang I have actually known > > > about for > > > > > > a long time ,, seems even before the internet why I don't recall > any > > > more.. > > > > > > Maybe it is from the horrible abuse and treatment of the > american > > > Indian > > > > > > by my own government. and other minorities.. > > > > > > > > I think people want to believe the soft sell packaged lies.. > people > > > > > > apparently prefer to live in fear and accept lies rather than > face > > > the > > > > > > truth.. as for governments that color truth worse is it the USA > or > > > > > > Great Britain? Both Countries seem to bury their heads in the > sand > > > when it > > > > > > comes to coloring their history. still am trying to figure out > > > > > > the British empire. > > > > > > > > Hopefully the Occupy Movement will have some effect positive I > hope > > > if the > > > > > > one percent want to control the wealth and government they at > > > least to > > > > > > bear their fair share of the expenses based on percentage of > > > ownership. > > > > > > Allan > > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 7:51 PM, archytas <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > The current crisis is not one of banking or economics, but > > > something > > > > > > > much more basic. One might say this is our attitude towards > > > 'machines > > > > > > > of loving grace'. In short, we live in the fantasy that "the > > > machine" > > > > > > > will put things right, returning to an equilibrium as our > > > > > > > interventions are little more than 'of mice and men'. The real > > > world > > > > > > > of the environment and the exchange world of economics return > to > > > > > > > equilibrium after fluctuations. It's very tempting to believe > > > this - > > > > > > > one might see Gaia as a case in point - the planet and other > > > species > > > > > > > flourishing after we've crazed ourselves to extinction through > > > > > > > consumption and wars. > > > > > > > > > You can pick up the ideas of 'all watched over by machines of > > > loving > > > > > > > grace' here - > > > > >http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/2160186460/All-Watched-Over-By-M. > .. > > > > > > > > > A review with an economic twist can be found here - > > > > > > http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/the-natural-chaos-of-markets.html > > > > > > > > > My own work has often focused on the difference between > espoused > > > > > > > theories and theories-in-action. In some subjects like > chemistry > > > the > > > > > > > relationship between theory and practice is good - if you > follow > > > the > > > > > > > rules and recipes you get what you intended and the > explanations > > > make > > > > > > > sense if you study enough. There is a working core, you can > trust > > > or > > > > > > > check the work of others and speculation can eventually be > tested > > > on > > > > > > > what is not accepted as 'settled'. In the human sciences this > is > > > much > > > > > > > more difficult, not least because we do not exclude much in > human > > > > > > > society that prevents science. Few of us have much aptitude > for > > > > > > > science, perhaps especially for its negation of ideology > soaked up > > > > > > > from community. > > > > > > > > > I always noted as a teacher that I was more comfortable saying > 'you > > > > > > > just can't handle the maths' (unlikely for me as I'd teach > people > > > like > > > > > > > that without the stuff), than in saying 'you just don't get > > > argument > > > > > > > because you can't let go of any prejudice'. Teaching people to > > > think > > > > > > > for themselves contains a paradox. One finds much one is > expected > > > to > > > > > > > teach based on dross. I know of no country in which history is > > > taught > > > > > > > without gross ideological distortion. We hear the Japanese > rip out > > > > > > > pages in textbooks on the 'rape of Nanking' yet it's rare to > find > > > > > > > Brits who know much of our squalid imperialism and involvement > in > > > much > > > > > > > similar. In the middle east you will find a more accurate > picture > > > of > > > > > > > the Crusades than we get, but the Jihad that is the mirror > image is > > > > > > > revered. > > > > > > > > > Most people like to imagine themselves as individual, but if > we're > > > > > > > honest we are subjects of machines of loving grace. One makes > > > one's > > > > > > > way in an economy (machine) on a planet (environmental > machine). I > > > > > > > think these are only "machines" because we don't examine them. > > > > > > > Examination often ends in paradox - logical positivism > eventually > > > > > > > conceded its own quest to extirpate metaphysics was - oops - > > > > > > > metaphysical. My own guess is that rigorous thinking seeks to > > > > > > > discover and eliminate dross - this involves a great deal of > > > courage > > > > > > > in accepting you are likely made of same oneself! > > > > > > > > > I'm a maverick systems theorist and conceive of our > > > social-political > > > > > > > arguments (and the systems themselves) as houses of cards. one > > > looks > > > > > > > for the soft spots that can bring the lot down or as places to > put > > > in > > > > > > > effort to keep the ball rolling. No argument survives this > process > > > > > > > more than twenty seconds with such soft spots arising. Most > don't > > > > > > > have either the energy or tools to keep going and run to the > > > 'bliss' > > > > > > > of the machine (religion, patriotism, left and right etc.). > We are > > > > > > > thus robots of one 'machine' or another, not individuals, > hardly > > > > > > > people if we're not > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป
