Molly your question has my mind running around its dust bins. Most my thoughts are not original but more composites of other ideas. They are like hand me downs,, like the 3D image comes from watching how people search for treasure on sunken vessels, it is rags from a different ?idea?.
My world is a world of rags in the form of other ideas. Allan On Jan 29, 2012 8:21 PM, "Allan H" <[email protected]> wrote: > Yeah it is kind of like an old dog sappen on his favorite bone. > > it is trying to understand others, and what I have experienced As I have > very few friends that like discussing God I talk to myself a lot..which is > no problem as I am never really alone,. > Allan > > On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Not at all irrelevant. did you have more thoughts about this? >> >> On Jan 28, 10:19 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Hi Mol&Rigs, listening to you two I've been asking myself why none of >> > you mentions Jung and his description of the collective unconscious. I >> > haven't read the Red Book yet, but maybe of of you has and could tell >> > me why this is irrelevant to what you are discussing. >> > >> > On Jan 27, 2:35 pm, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > The paramount paradox. >> > >> > > On Jan 27, 8:21 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > > Yes- I've read a lot of Campbell and admire his efforts. In fact, I >> > > > was going to put the Oriental Mythology of his Masks of God series >> > > > aside to reread- Indian, Chinese and Japanese chapters. I wish I >> could >> > > > keep certain studies on top of my thinking but maybe I have read so >> > > > much there is a chute to forgetfulness or a pit of scrambled >> > > > ideas! :-) Oh, dear! >> > >> > > > However, back to your comment about looking back/within. I consider >> > > > there is impossible split between the spiritual and material and yet >> > > > that is our struggle to bridge- if possible. >> > >> > > > On Jan 27, 6:32 am, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > > > Do myths disappear? Joseph Campbell mapped common human myth >> around >> > > > > the word and through time to discover a mechanism something close >> to >> > > > > common memory - the expression of the same archetypes in real >> time, >> > > > > isolated incidents around the globe and at the same time. This >> > > > > phenomena has occurred throughout human history. This may tell us >> > > > > that it is not the looking back that is important, but as Vam >> says, >> > > > > looking within. >> > >> > > > > On Jan 26, 5:54 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > > > > What is original? I might argue that one is simply explicating >> what >> > > > > > already exists. >> > >> > > > > > Each generation assumes it has a distinct character- or needs >> to prove >> > > > > > that it has. >> > >> > > > > > Was thinking the reason myths disappear is because they were >> oral and >> > > > > > native languages are usually suppressed by the conquerors. One >> also >> > > > > > carries family myths- which interfere with deep communication. >> > >> > > > > > Yes- there are terrible inequities- all the more scandalous >> because >> > > > > > there really is plenty to go around so the root is greed and >> distain >> > > > > > for others. Governments only pretend to care for all its >> citizens- it >> > > > > > picks and chooses. >> > >> > > > > > We passed the Gilded Age- I would call this the Tinsel Age. >> > >> > > > > > On Jan 25, 9:45 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > I would say, Vam, that you often jump in the water with an >> 'entourage' >> > > > > > > of assumptive baggage. I probably dislike citation more than >> you and >> > > > > > > am not the first. Veblen would be a good start (to use some >> rough >> > > > > > > citation). These days, you can at least Google the name. >> When I >> > > > > > > started it meant a trip to the library. Anyone who has the >> chance to >> > > > > > > read a lot of what's available (this is still remarkably few) >> should >> > > > > > > discover most of what they thought their own ideas have been >> done >> > > > > > > before. The idea is no doubt to try to 'stand on the >> shoulders of >> > > > > > > giants' (itself a wisecrack by Newton on Hooke's dwarfish >> stature). >> > > > > > > The 'giants' always turn out flawed. Moses is a war criminal >> in >> > > > > > > Numbers 31, the Greeks, for all their argument, never >> produced a >> > > > > > > decent one against slavery (the lunatic-religious John Brown >> being >> > > > > > > better). Many, because they don't read enough, attribute >> 'relativity' >> > > > > > > to Einstein, but it has a longer and wider history. The >> chattering >> > > > > > > class reinvents the square wheel all over the place. >> > >> > > > > > > What if the best of our system is fascist and we have grown >> in such >> > > > > > > culture, or a caste system? By what processes do we get an >> > > > > > > understanding for change from such? Western propaganda would >> have us >> > > > > > > believe pouring resources into the gullets of the rich is >> sensible. >> > > > > > > We all live in the gutter. Only some of us lift our eyes to >> the >> > > > > > > stars. If only I was smart enough to have been first to >> that! (Oscar >> > > > > > > Wilde) A common jibe by academics is that common sense is >> that which >> > > > > > > allows us to believe the world is flat - yet flat-earth was an >> > > > > > > academic construction - one can actually see the curvature of >> the >> > > > > > > Earth. >> > >> > > > > > > What we need is reliable collective memory. Given our >> capacity to >> > > > > > > pervert, citation is usually used in a highly selective >> manner, >> > > > > > > usually along with a core academic (religious etc.) narrative >> of >> > > > > > > exclusion of competing argument. Control of what is reliable >> memory >> > > > > > > is, of course, just what those in power want to maintain - >> perhaps >> > > > > > > through principles of Home and Vanity. I will always prefer >> the >> > > > > > > margins to this, remembering that to oppose tyranny can >> pervert into >> > > > > > > its support. >> > >> > > > > > > Deconstruction is only a beginning. I believe its spirit >> concerns a >> > > > > > > defeat of madness that includes rationalist fantasy and animal >> > > > > > > consensus (which I sense as grasping, selfish individualism >> easy to >> > > > > > > rule). >> > >> > > > > > > On Jan 25, 3:26 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > > "Is this not an important part of the dynamic >> multidimensional mind >> > > > > > > > Vam, can you find nothing of value with meeting this view >> at least as >> > > > > > > > a challenge?" >> > >> > > > > > > > James, starting with God is a bad idea. Perhaps, ending up >> at it is >> > > > > > > > what needs to happen. Dawkins was in Jaipur here and I >> found his view >> > > > > > > > a lot more balanced, less bigoted and militant. >> > >> > > > > > > > And Neil is right : it must deal with morality. Where his >> discourse >> > > > > > > > runs dry is when he is quoting other people ! That is also >> my >> > > > > > > > compelling logic against intellectual property rights. What >> damned >> > > > > > > > "rights" on knowledge of any kind ? Or, why must we have to >> give >> > > > > > > > references, when all we wish to say is ours, with us ? If >> it's not >> > > > > > > > ours, for us to say, we should STFU ! >> > >> > > > > > > > The formal aspect of Truth or truths is onerous. There are >> libraries >> > > > > > > > out there where it goes dry. It is the informal one that I >> wish to put >> > > > > > > > across : it is mine... and for that reason should be >> everyone's, of >> > > > > > > > everything. And that ( informal aspect ) is... HOME. The >> search for >> > > > > > > > that place which is truly ours, where we can rest without >> fear, free >> > > > > > > > and fulfilled, which nothing in the whole universe can take >> away from >> > > > > > > > us. Truth is our Home. >> > >> > > > > > > > This is no parable I've begun. People are spent for and on >> a " home " >> > > > > > > > for themselves. They build, buy, rent one for the body... >> house or >> > > > > > > > apartment, car or craft. But then the worst a-holes amongst >> us come to >> > > > > > > > believe that home they are so invested on is also the " >> home " to >> > > > > > > > their emotion, to their thought, their identity, and their >> happiness >> > > > > > > > too ! Well, it is and it definitely isn't. >> > >> > > > > > > > The better ( a-hols ) take on a wife, friend, progeny or >> pet, >> > > > > > > > community or cause, to engage their >> emotion-thought-identity where, >> > > > > > > > with whom or which, one then feels at home. Of that our >> thought is >> > > > > > > > preoccupied... that same ' faculty ' that had been used to >> focus on >> > > > > > > > money to buy the home, on the value of food and worth of >> delicacies, >> > > > > > > > on the relevance of what is beneficial and serves our >> purposes and >> > > > > > > > what does not. >> > >> > > > > > > > That pitch of ' acquisition,' value, worth, relevance... is >> also there >> > > > > > > > in our thought and eye, as in it pre-exists and is >> consciously or >> > > > > > > > subconsciously applied, for the home-objects of our emotion >> as well. >> > > > > > > > For a lifetime, we carry that pitch to manage, manipulate, >> decide and >> > > > > > > > deal with what is outside us to acquire the material >> home-object in >> > > > > > > > our aim ... a domain that, for all practical purposes, >> encompasses >> > > > > > > > everything. For everything, external and internal, is >> outside the >> > > > > > > > agency, the ego-person, we are through the pursuit after >> our aim. >> > >> > > > > > > > What is concurrent within, inside of us - the "ego-person," >> is a build >> > > > > > > > up and an intensification of VANITY... which expresses as : >> " I >> > > > > > > > possess;" " I win;" " I will acquire;" " I am successful." >> It is all a >> > > > > > > > matter of process that is normal to our drive and >> inevitable to our >> > > > > > > > search. But, as surely as sure can be, it is Vanity that >> also blocks >> > > > > > > > our evolution and progression into the true Home to our >> emotion - >> > > > > > > > which is Love, to our thought - which is Silence, to our >> identity - >> > > > > > > > which is Zero, and to our spirit - which is Bliss Infinite. >> Because it >> > > > > > > > limits us to what we have, even as it automatically makes >> us pore over >> > > > > > > > all that we does not have; and, it is limiting because >> while with it >> > > > > > > > we can never give up that " pitch " we have internalised >> along the >> > > > > > > > journey and can hence never view and see things with Love >> and Silence, >> > > > > > > > and be Zero with Bliss Infinite. >> > >> > > > > > > > These are the real aspects and issues to spirituality : >> Home and >> > > > > > > > Vanity. It is these that I find more pertinent than God or >> whatever. >> > > > > > > > It is these that will make us be better and excel, that >> will address >> > > > > > > > the monstrous twists with which people reduce the best of >> systems and >> > > > > > > > opportunities to gutter, that will redress the moral >> deficit in our >> > > > > > > > public and personal lives.- Hide quoted text - >> > >> > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> > >> > > > > - Show quoted text - >> > > > > -- > ( > ) > |_D Allan > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. > > >
