Part of human nature is to identify with people, thoughts, ideas around us. Being able to witness your identification, and moving beyond it is the real treasure.
On Jan 29, 9:10 pm, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > Molly your question has my mind running around its dust bins. Most my > thoughts are not original but more composites of other ideas. They are like > hand me downs,, like the 3D image comes from watching how people search > for treasure on sunken vessels, it is rags from a different ?idea?. > > My world is a world of rags in the form of other ideas. > Allan > On Jan 29, 2012 8:21 PM, "Allan H" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yeah it is kind of like an old dog sappen on his favorite bone. > > > it is trying to understand others, and what I have experienced As I have > > very few friends that like discussing God I talk to myself a lot..which is > > no problem as I am never really alone,. > > Allan > > > On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Not at all irrelevant. did you have more thoughts about this? > > >> On Jan 28, 10:19 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > Hi Mol&Rigs, listening to you two I've been asking myself why none of > >> > you mentions Jung and his description of the collective unconscious. I > >> > haven't read the Red Book yet, but maybe of of you has and could tell > >> > me why this is irrelevant to what you are discussing. > > >> > On Jan 27, 2:35 pm, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > The paramount paradox. > > >> > > On Jan 27, 8:21 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > Yes- I've read a lot of Campbell and admire his efforts. In fact, I > >> > > > was going to put the Oriental Mythology of his Masks of God series > >> > > > aside to reread- Indian, Chinese and Japanese chapters. I wish I > >> could > >> > > > keep certain studies on top of my thinking but maybe I have read so > >> > > > much there is a chute to forgetfulness or a pit of scrambled > >> > > > ideas! :-) Oh, dear! > > >> > > > However, back to your comment about looking back/within. I consider > >> > > > there is impossible split between the spiritual and material and yet > >> > > > that is our struggle to bridge- if possible. > > >> > > > On Jan 27, 6:32 am, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > > Do myths disappear? Joseph Campbell mapped common human myth > >> around > >> > > > > the word and through time to discover a mechanism something close > >> to > >> > > > > common memory - the expression of the same archetypes in real > >> time, > >> > > > > isolated incidents around the globe and at the same time. This > >> > > > > phenomena has occurred throughout human history. This may tell us > >> > > > > that it is not the looking back that is important, but as Vam > >> says, > >> > > > > looking within. > > >> > > > > On Jan 26, 5:54 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > > > What is original? I might argue that one is simply explicating > >> what > >> > > > > > already exists. > > >> > > > > > Each generation assumes it has a distinct character- or needs > >> to prove > >> > > > > > that it has. > > >> > > > > > Was thinking the reason myths disappear is because they were > >> oral and > >> > > > > > native languages are usually suppressed by the conquerors. One > >> also > >> > > > > > carries family myths- which interfere with deep communication. > > >> > > > > > Yes- there are terrible inequities- all the more scandalous > >> because > >> > > > > > there really is plenty to go around so the root is greed and > >> distain > >> > > > > > for others. Governments only pretend to care for all its > >> citizens- it > >> > > > > > picks and chooses. > > >> > > > > > We passed the Gilded Age- I would call this the Tinsel Age. > > >> > > > > > On Jan 25, 9:45 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > > > > I would say, Vam, that you often jump in the water with an > >> 'entourage' > >> > > > > > > of assumptive baggage. I probably dislike citation more than > >> you and > >> > > > > > > am not the first. Veblen would be a good start (to use some > >> rough > >> > > > > > > citation). These days, you can at least Google the name. > >> When I > >> > > > > > > started it meant a trip to the library. Anyone who has the > >> chance to > >> > > > > > > read a lot of what's available (this is still remarkably few) > >> should > >> > > > > > > discover most of what they thought their own ideas have been > >> done > >> > > > > > > before. The idea is no doubt to try to 'stand on the > >> shoulders of > >> > > > > > > giants' (itself a wisecrack by Newton on Hooke's dwarfish > >> stature). > >> > > > > > > The 'giants' always turn out flawed. Moses is a war criminal > >> in > >> > > > > > > Numbers 31, the Greeks, for all their argument, never > >> produced a > >> > > > > > > decent one against slavery (the lunatic-religious John Brown > >> being > >> > > > > > > better). Many, because they don't read enough, attribute > >> 'relativity' > >> > > > > > > to Einstein, but it has a longer and wider history. The > >> chattering > >> > > > > > > class reinvents the square wheel all over the place. > > >> > > > > > > What if the best of our system is fascist and we have grown > >> in such > >> > > > > > > culture, or a caste system? By what processes do we get an > >> > > > > > > understanding for change from such? Western propaganda would > >> have us > >> > > > > > > believe pouring resources into the gullets of the rich is > >> sensible. > >> > > > > > > We all live in the gutter. Only some of us lift our eyes to > >> the > >> > > > > > > stars. If only I was smart enough to have been first to > >> that! (Oscar > >> > > > > > > Wilde) A common jibe by academics is that common sense is > >> that which > >> > > > > > > allows us to believe the world is flat - yet flat-earth was an > >> > > > > > > academic construction - one can actually see the curvature of > >> the > >> > > > > > > Earth. > > >> > > > > > > What we need is reliable collective memory. Given our > >> capacity to > >> > > > > > > pervert, citation is usually used in a highly selective > >> manner, > >> > > > > > > usually along with a core academic (religious etc.) narrative > >> of > >> > > > > > > exclusion of competing argument. Control of what is reliable > >> memory > >> > > > > > > is, of course, just what those in power want to maintain - > >> perhaps > >> > > > > > > through principles of Home and Vanity. I will always prefer > >> the > >> > > > > > > margins to this, remembering that to oppose tyranny can > >> pervert into > >> > > > > > > its support. > > >> > > > > > > Deconstruction is only a beginning. I believe its spirit > >> concerns a > >> > > > > > > defeat of madness that includes rationalist fantasy and animal > >> > > > > > > consensus (which I sense as grasping, selfish individualism > >> easy to > >> > > > > > > rule). > > >> > > > > > > On Jan 25, 3:26 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > "Is this not an important part of the dynamic > >> multidimensional mind > >> > > > > > > > Vam, can you find nothing of value with meeting this view > >> at least as > >> > > > > > > > a challenge?" > > >> > > > > > > > James, starting with God is a bad idea. Perhaps, ending up > >> at it is > >> > > > > > > > what needs to happen. Dawkins was in Jaipur here and I > >> found his view > >> > > > > > > > a lot more balanced, less bigoted and militant. > > >> > > > > > > > And Neil is right : it must deal with morality. Where his > >> discourse > >> > > > > > > > runs dry is when he is quoting other people ! That is also > >> my > >> > > > > > > > compelling logic against intellectual property rights. What > >> damned > >> > > > > > > > "rights" on knowledge of any kind ? Or, why must we have to > >> give > >> > > > > > > > references, when all we wish to say is ours, with us ? If > >> it's not > >> > > > > > > > ours, for us to say, we should STFU ! > > >> > > > > > > > The formal aspect of Truth or truths is onerous. There are > >> libraries > >> > > > > > > > out there where it goes dry. It is the informal one that I > >> wish to put > >> > > > > > > > across : it is mine... and for that reason should be > >> everyone's, of > >> > > > > > > > everything. And that ( informal aspect ) is... HOME. The > >> search for > >> > > > > > > > that place which is truly ours, where we can rest without > >> fear, free > >> > > > > > > > and fulfilled, which nothing in the whole universe can take > >> away from > >> > > > > > > > us. Truth is our Home. > > >> > > > > > > > This is no parable I've begun. People are spent for and on > >> a " home " > >> > > > > > > > for themselves. They build, buy, rent one for the body... > >> house or > >> > > > > > > > apartment, car or craft. But then the worst a-holes amongst > >> us come to > >> > > > > > > > believe that home they are so invested on is also the " > >> home " to > >> > > > > > > > their emotion, to their thought, their identity, and their > >> happiness > >> > > > > > > > too ! Well, it is and it definitely isn't. > > >> > > > > > > > The better ( a-hols ) take on a wife, friend, progeny or > >> pet, > >> > > > > > > > community or cause, to engage their > >> emotion-thought-identity where, > >> > > > > > > > with whom or which, one then feels at home. Of that our > >> thought is > >> > > > > > > > preoccupied... that same ' faculty ' that had been used to > >> focus on > >> > > > > > > > money to buy the home, on the value of food and worth of > >> delicacies, > >> > > > > > > > on the relevance of what is beneficial and serves our > >> purposes and > >> > > > > > > > what does not. > > >> > > > > > > > That pitch of ' acquisition,' value, worth, relevance... is > >> also there > >> > > > > > > > in our thought and eye, as in it pre-exists and is > >> consciously or > >> > > > > > > > subconsciously applied, for the home-objects of our emotion > >> as well. > >> > > > > > > > For a lifetime, we carry that pitch to manage, manipulate, > >> decide and > >> > > > > > > > deal with what is outside us to acquire the material > >> home-object in > >> > > > > > > > our aim ... a domain that, for all practical purposes, > >> encompasses > >> > > > > > > > everything. For everything, external and internal, is > >> outside the > >> > > > > > > > agency, the ego-person, we are through the pursuit after > >> our aim. > > >> > > > > > > > What is concurrent within, > > ... > > read more »
