Also- I think if we really knew the consequences of our acts and choices we might just curl up into a ball and do nothing. One friend and I chuckle that we're all pretty much on an assembly line...
On Feb 1, 5:27 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > Just to clarify my thought- that luck and timing can be good, bad or > indifferent. Also rather than active thinking being a debate, it is > more like selection. Literature and social sciences deal with layered > communication- for instance, withholding facts, feelings or motives. > It is often called discretion. :-) How do you mean "identity"? > > On Jan 31, 11:09 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > The 'making sense of things later' seems true even in the split second > > in brain research. I regard all strategy as retrospectively devised! > > There's a book just out by Hill and Myatt (economists) on just how > > facile economics teaching is in universities - but this contains > > nothing on how this has happened. Some of this seems to me connected > > with a lack of movement beyond identity Molly. > > > On Jan 31, 1:30 pm, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Part of human nature is to identify with people, thoughts, ideas > > > around us. Being able to witness your identification, and moving > > > beyond it is the real treasure. > > > > On Jan 29, 9:10 pm, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Molly your question has my mind running around its dust bins. Most my > > > > thoughts are not original but more composites of other ideas. They are > > > > like > > > > hand me downs,, like the 3D image comes from watching how people search > > > > for treasure on sunken vessels, it is rags from a different ?idea?. > > > > > My world is a world of rags in the form of other ideas. > > > > Allan > > > > On Jan 29, 2012 8:21 PM, "Allan H" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Yeah it is kind of like an old dog sappen on his favorite bone. > > > > > > it is trying to understand others, and what I have experienced As I > > > > > have > > > > > very few friends that like discussing God I talk to myself a > > > > > lot..which is > > > > > no problem as I am never really alone,. > > > > > Allan > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> Not at all irrelevant. did you have more thoughts about this? > > > > > >> On Jan 28, 10:19 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> > Hi Mol&Rigs, listening to you two I've been asking myself why none > > > > >> > of > > > > >> > you mentions Jung and his description of the collective > > > > >> > unconscious. I > > > > >> > haven't read the Red Book yet, but maybe of of you has and could > > > > >> > tell > > > > >> > me why this is irrelevant to what you are discussing. > > > > > >> > On Jan 27, 2:35 pm, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> > > The paramount paradox. > > > > > >> > > On Jan 27, 8:21 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > Yes- I've read a lot of Campbell and admire his efforts. In > > > > >> > > > fact, I > > > > >> > > > was going to put the Oriental Mythology of his Masks of God > > > > >> > > > series > > > > >> > > > aside to reread- Indian, Chinese and Japanese chapters. I wish > > > > >> > > > I > > > > >> could > > > > >> > > > keep certain studies on top of my thinking but maybe I have > > > > >> > > > read so > > > > >> > > > much there is a chute to forgetfulness or a pit of scrambled > > > > >> > > > ideas! :-) Oh, dear! > > > > > >> > > > However, back to your comment about looking back/within. I > > > > >> > > > consider > > > > >> > > > there is impossible split between the spiritual and material > > > > >> > > > and yet > > > > >> > > > that is our struggle to bridge- if possible. > > > > > >> > > > On Jan 27, 6:32 am, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > Do myths disappear? Joseph Campbell mapped common human myth > > > > >> around > > > > >> > > > > the word and through time to discover a mechanism something > > > > >> > > > > close > > > > >> to > > > > >> > > > > common memory - the expression of the same archetypes in real > > > > >> time, > > > > >> > > > > isolated incidents around the globe and at the same time. > > > > >> > > > > This > > > > >> > > > > phenomena has occurred throughout human history. This may > > > > >> > > > > tell us > > > > >> > > > > that it is not the looking back that is important, but as Vam > > > > >> says, > > > > >> > > > > looking within. > > > > > >> > > > > On Jan 26, 5:54 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > What is original? I might argue that one is simply > > > > >> > > > > > explicating > > > > >> what > > > > >> > > > > > already exists. > > > > > >> > > > > > Each generation assumes it has a distinct character- or > > > > >> > > > > > needs > > > > >> to prove > > > > >> > > > > > that it has. > > > > > >> > > > > > Was thinking the reason myths disappear is because they > > > > >> > > > > > were > > > > >> oral and > > > > >> > > > > > native languages are usually suppressed by the conquerors. > > > > >> > > > > > One > > > > >> also > > > > >> > > > > > carries family myths- which interfere with deep > > > > >> > > > > > communication. > > > > > >> > > > > > Yes- there are terrible inequities- all the more scandalous > > > > >> because > > > > >> > > > > > there really is plenty to go around so the root is greed > > > > >> > > > > > and > > > > >> distain > > > > >> > > > > > for others. Governments only pretend to care for all its > > > > >> citizens- it > > > > >> > > > > > picks and chooses. > > > > > >> > > > > > We passed the Gilded Age- I would call this the Tinsel Age. > > > > > >> > > > > > On Jan 25, 9:45 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > I would say, Vam, that you often jump in the water with > > > > >> > > > > > > an > > > > >> 'entourage' > > > > >> > > > > > > of assumptive baggage. I probably dislike citation more > > > > >> > > > > > > than > > > > >> you and > > > > >> > > > > > > am not the first. Veblen would be a good start (to use > > > > >> > > > > > > some > > > > >> rough > > > > >> > > > > > > citation). These days, you can at least Google the name. > > > > >> When I > > > > >> > > > > > > started it meant a trip to the library. Anyone who has > > > > >> > > > > > > the > > > > >> chance to > > > > >> > > > > > > read a lot of what's available (this is still remarkably > > > > >> > > > > > > few) > > > > >> should > > > > >> > > > > > > discover most of what they thought their own ideas have > > > > >> > > > > > > been > > > > >> done > > > > >> > > > > > > before. The idea is no doubt to try to 'stand on the > > > > >> shoulders of > > > > >> > > > > > > giants' (itself a wisecrack by Newton on Hooke's dwarfish > > > > >> stature). > > > > >> > > > > > > The 'giants' always turn out flawed. Moses is a war > > > > >> > > > > > > criminal > > > > >> in > > > > >> > > > > > > Numbers 31, the Greeks, for all their argument, never > > > > >> produced a > > > > >> > > > > > > decent one against slavery (the lunatic-religious John > > > > >> > > > > > > Brown > > > > >> being > > > > >> > > > > > > better). Many, because they don't read enough, attribute > > > > >> 'relativity' > > > > >> > > > > > > to Einstein, but it has a longer and wider history. The > > > > >> chattering > > > > >> > > > > > > class reinvents the square wheel all over the place. > > > > > >> > > > > > > What if the best of our system is fascist and we have > > > > >> > > > > > > grown > > > > >> in such > > > > >> > > > > > > culture, or a caste system? By what processes do we get > > > > >> > > > > > > an > > > > >> > > > > > > understanding for change from such? Western propaganda > > > > >> > > > > > > would > > > > >> have us > > > > >> > > > > > > believe pouring resources into the gullets of the rich is > > > > >> sensible. > > > > >> > > > > > > We all live in the gutter. Only some of us lift our > > > > >> > > > > > > eyes to > > > > >> the > > > > >> > > > > > > stars. If only I was smart enough to have been first to > > > > >> that! (Oscar > > > > >> > > > > > > Wilde) A common jibe by academics is that common sense > > > > >> > > > > > > is > > > > >> that which > > > > >> > > > > > > allows us to believe the world is flat - yet flat-earth > > > > >> > > > > > > was an > > > > >> > > > > > > academic construction - one can actually see the > > > > >> > > > > > > curvature of > > > > >> the > > > > >> > > > > > > Earth. > > > > > >> > > > > > > What we need is reliable collective memory. Given our > > > > >> capacity to > > > > >> > > > > > > pervert, citation is usually used in a highly selective > > > > >> manner, > > > > >> > > > > > > usually along with a core academic (religious etc.) > > > > >> > > > > > > narrative > > > > >> of > > > > >> > > > > > > exclusion of competing argument. Control of what is > > > > >> > > > > > > reliable > > > > >> memory > > > > >> > > > > > > is, of course, just what those in power want to maintain > > > > >> > > > > > > - > > > > >> perhaps > > > > >> > > > > > > through principles of Home and Vanity. I will always > > > > >> > > > > > > prefer > > > > >> the > > > > >> > > > > > > margins to this, remembering that to oppose tyranny can > > > > >> pervert into > > > > >> > > > > > > its support. > > > > > >> > > > > > > Deconstruction is only a beginning. I believe its spirit > > > > >> concerns a > > > > >> > > > > > > defeat of madness that includes rationalist fantasy and > > > > >> > > > > > > animal > > > > >> > > > > > > consensus (which I sense as grasping, selfish > > > > >> > > > > > > individualism > > > > >> easy to > > > > >> > > > > > > rule). > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Jan 25, 3:26 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > "Is this not an important part of the dynamic > > > > >> multidimensional mind > > > > >> > > > > > > > Vam, can you find nothing of value with meeting this > > > > >> > > > > > > > view > > > > >> at least as > > > > >> > > > > > > > a challenge?" > > > > > >> > > > > > > > James, starting with God is a bad idea. Perhaps, > > > > >> > > > > > > > ending up > > > > >> at it is > > > > >> > > > > > > > what needs to happen. Dawkins was in Jaipur here and I > > > > >> found his view > > > > >> > > > > > > > a lot more balanced, less bigoted and militant. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > And Neil is right : it must deal with morality. Where > > > > >> > > > > > > > his > > > > >> discourse > > > > >> > > > > > > > runs dry is when he is quoting other people ! That is > > > > >> > > > > > > > also > > > > >> my > > > > >> > > > > > > > compelling logic against intellectual property rights. > > > > >> > > > > > > > What > > > > >> damned > > > > >> > > > > > > > "rights" on knowledge of any kind ? Or, why must we > > > > >> > > > > > > > have to > > > > >> give > > > > >> > > > > > > > references, when all we wish to say is ours, with us ? > > > > >> > > > > > > > If > > > > >> it's not > > > > >> > > > > > > > ours, for us to say, we should STFU ! > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The formal aspect of Truth or truths is onerous. There > > > > >> > > > > > > > are > > > > >> libraries > > > > >> > > > > > > > out there where it goes dry. It is the informal one > > > > >> > > > > > > > that I > > > > >> wish to put > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
