That is true,, I think i misspelled as usual conscious,, you know the thing that nags you when you are doing something wrong.. Allan
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 9:11 AM, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > It depends on what you understand by 'social conscious'. The super > rich by necessity have to be 'social conscious' in order to be able to > develop further. You don't need to have 'social conscious' if there is > nothing that you can do to participate in the given richness. > > 2012/11/14 Allan H <[email protected]>: >> It is the super rich that filled their pockets from the world's debt. From >> the looks of things there is a form or lack of social conscious >> that is lacking. >> >> >> Allan >> Matrix ** th3 beginning light >> >> On Nov 13, 2012 8:50 PM, "archytas" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> There is hardly anything more important to thriving functioning >>> capitalism than productivity, and sharing the fruits of productivity. >>> It is notable that productivity among U.S. workers actually >>> skyrocketed over the last decade and a half, but real wages have >>> flattened or declined. >>> Where did the surpluses go? To parasitic financializers who have seen >>> their share over all corporate profits grow from 10% to over 45% in >>> recent decades. >>> After costing trillions and wiping out the world economy, what asset, >>> good, or service do big banks produce that has genuine public worth? >>> >>> • “Expert advice”, in which brokers intentionally sell junk to >>> consumers, as shown in investment bank emails? >>> • “Financial services”, which turn out to be so laden with hidden fees >>> and loosened/fabricated credit qualifications that the lendee is worse >>> off? >>> • Allegiances that concentrate financial wealth the top 0.1% of the >>> population, causing the vast majority of the world to get poorer? >>> >>> If anything, citizens would stand to gain more by paying big banks to >>> close their doors. >>> >>> Big banks have largely stopped lending to businesses or individuals >>> because that’s not profitable enough and because they need to retain >>> capital to reduce their exposure due to their own foolish >>> overleveraging. This depresses community and small business >>> entrepreneurship and productivity. >>> >>> Bottom line: Big banks’ “services” take far more in costs than they >>> provide in benefits. Much would be gained, and little lost, if they >>> were allowed to fail or were decommissioned outright for their >>> criminal behavior. >>> >>> The bail outs could have been given to individuals and families >>> instead of the banks - we would probably have been looking at $120,000 >>> a family. >>> >>> It's not the roar of the crowd rigsy - we might call that socially >>> approved epistemic authority. It's about forming decent culture and >>> that we are less individual than we are made to think. Ask people if >>> they have a figure on what the TARP and the rest have cost each one of >>> us - you'll generally come up dry. If people struggle even with >>> basics like this what chance complex schemes of internal training? >>> >>> On 13 Nov, 19:28, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > The US has lots of problems it does not want to admit to.. There is one >>> > extremely dangerous quake off the northwest coast .. that will happen >>> > more sooner than later. >>> > Allan >>> > >>> > Matrix ** th3 beginning light >>> > On Nov 13, 2012 1:59 PM, "rigsy03" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > You seem to see morality as a group thing rather than an individual >>> > > struggle between good and evil- which is a religious/spiritual matter. >>> > > As for individualism, it is a necessary tension against "the roar of >>> > > the crowd". There are too many examples to list. >>> > >>> > > On Nov 12, 9:49 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > > > Even one person one vote isn't it on its own. Majorities are >>> > > > manipulable and often wrong. If you look at an issue like abortion >>> > > > - >>> > > > which I think should be available and also avoided by better sexual >>> > > > practice - there might be a majority against for all sorts of >>> > > > superstitious reasons. The US relies on Roe v Wade rather than >>> > > > statute. For all the romanticism of Irish republicanism, they leave >>> > > > a >>> > > > young, raped girl to 'her fate'. I believe there comes a time when >>> > > > we >>> > > > should have help to slip from the mortal coil but one can >>> > > > immediately >>> > > > see problems. Molly talks of embracing pardoxes - but much of the >>> > > > difficulty concerns cultural ideologies based in the manipulation of >>> > > > ignorance. Any half-wit should be able to grasp that the treatment >>> > > > of >>> > > > wages as a cost to be hammered down is inconsistent with a developed >>> > > > economy and genuinely available opportunity for most. Yet our >>> > > > politics treats the dominant ideology of a race to the bottom on >>> > > > wages >>> > > > as as taken as read as any Soviet claptrap. Worker unions are to be >>> > > > detested, yet managers, owners and professionals are more unionised >>> > > > than any set of mine workers in history. >>> > >>> > > > Science more or less accepts we are good and evil and that the unit >>> > > > that promotes good behaviour is the social. Virtue ethics arise in >>> > > > writing within an unchallenged slave economy - I don't want to be >>> > > > 'pure' and live off the backs of others (though inevitably as I grow >>> > > > creaky I do). I'm sick of phrases like 'flexible employment' that >>> > > > mean a return of 'you, you and not you' casual labour and managerial >>> > > > abuse in a unitary framework of the employment relationship. >>> > > > Disgusted would be a more accurate term - much morality comes with >>> > > > that feeling (scientifically). >>> > >>> > > > The story of what is happening in America and the imposition of >>> > > > 'individualist' ideology (a bad joke when one looks at the lack of >>> > > > it >>> > > > in American Football) has been long told. When are we individual >>> > > > and >>> > > > when are we selfish prats? You look very individual when you step >>> > > > the >>> > > > big forward, stiff the sweeper, dummy the fullback and dive over the >>> > > > line. Try doing that without the guy who gave the precision pass, >>> > > > the >>> > > > guys running interference and all the attrition that knackered the >>> > > > big >>> > > > forward giving you the edge. >>> > >>> > > > My grandson has just had a small knee operation free at point of >>> > > > delivery. The hospital had a room with Xbox (all donated). We get >>> > > > some stuff right. Must go to collect him. >>> > >>> > > > On 12 Nov, 09:20, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > > > > I think it is it should be one person one vote,, and the >>> > > > > corporate >>> > > > > wallet closed completely and with a maximum amount that can be >>> > > > > donated (nation wide ) with no exception,, >>> > >>> > > > > effectively the excessively rich and companies and the companies.. >>> > > > > The super pacs need to be forced to revel all donors and the >>> > > > > amount >>> > > > > they donated.. and that is a minimum these organizations should >>> > > > > be >>> > > > > totally removed. the Pacs as a republican invention and they need >>> > > > > to >>> > > > > be brought into control. >>> > >>> > > > > the US has created a political money quagmire.. >>> > > > > Allan >>> > >>> > > > > On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 4:48 AM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> >>> > > > > wrote: >>> > > > > > It's back to humane values and sensible choices, perhaps. We >>> > > > > > don't >>> > > > > > have to buy into the cultural or commercial hoopla. I will think >>> > > > > > more >>> > > > > > about this. >>> > >>> > > > > > On Nov 11, 2:45 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > > > > >> You are right rigsy - but we have to get somewhere beyond. >>> > > > > >> What is >>> > > it >>> > > > > >> in our arguments, sentiments and the rest that hold us back? >>> > > > > >> And >>> > > may >>> > > > > >> be very wrong? >>> > >>> > > > > >> Allan is right we could vote better with our wallets. We >>> > > > > >> could, for >>> > > > > >> instance, all bank with mutuals and have more local economies >>> > > > > >> (Andrew). Problems are as Andrew says when the wallet is empty >>> > > > > >> and >>> > > > > >> also that we already have 'one dollar one vote'. >>> > >>> > > > > >> I doubt the academic-legal-commercial argument as argument at >>> > > > > >> all. >>> > > We >>> > > > > >> have a paedophile scandal in the UK - but even the media >>> > > > > >> reporting >>> > > it >>> > > > > >> has forgotten it reported such a generation ago (the key >>> > > documentaries >>> > > > > >> were called 'Cathy Come Home'.and 'Johnny Go Home') and misses >>> > > > > >> the >>> > > > > >> point that they key point is what evidence we can believe when >>> > > > > >> false >>> > > > > >> accusations are so easy to make and make life very difficult >>> > > > > >> for >>> > > real >>> > > > > >> victims. Our public inquiry systems are proving increasingly >>> > > > > >> untrustworthy. When one teaches critical reasoning it quickly >>> > > becomes >>> > > > > >> clear most people are no good at it. I'm quite sure our >>> > > > > >> mainstream >>> > > > > >> media has almost no clue and that many lawyers, judges and >>> > > politicians >>> > > > > >> would fail standard tests. But surely the route here cannot be >>> > > > > >> to >>> > > > > >> elite groups of philosopher kings - but should be towards >>> > > > > >> properly >>> > > > > >> available facts - leaving us with problems about who controls >>> > > > > >> that >>> > > > > >> production. 'The rich', whoever they are, already do this. >>> > >>> > > > > >> On 11 Nov, 11:33, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > > > > >> > Matriarchies are what started the problems and from history >>> > > > > >> > they >>> > > tend >>> > > > > >> > to love war.. >>> > > > > >> > they are not a solution.. >>> > > > > >> > Allan >>> > >>> > > > > >> > On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 10:49 AM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> >>> > > wrote: >>> > > > > >> > > I think that matriarchies are back in style- in all races >>> > > > > >> > > and >>> > > nations- >>> > > > > >> > > and think it will be just as suffocating as the patriarchy. >>> > >>> > > > > >> > > On Nov 11, 1:39 am, andrew vecsey <[email protected]> >>> > > wrote: >>> > > > > >> > >> Voting with your wallet could be an effective way to >>> > > > > >> > >> change >>> > > things and put >>> > > > > >> > >> the wealthy exploiters out of business. Buying cheap >>> > > > > >> > >> products >>> > > is more >>> > > > > >> > >> expensive in the long term anyways. Buying food from >>> > > > > >> > >> local >>> > > markets is also >>> > > > > >> > >> healthier. As long as we all play the game, the game will >>> > > > > >> > >> keep >>> > > playing >>> > > > > >> > >> until every business becomes a monopoly and globalization >>> > > > > >> > >> will >>> > > take over >>> > > > > >> > >> our wallets. Once our wallets are gone, we are really >>> > > > > >> > >> screwed >>> > > and will have >>> > > > > >> > >> no other choice than to play robin hood. So much for free >>> > > markets. >>> > >>> > > > > >> > >> On Sunday, November 11, 2012 12:41:52 AM UTC+1, archytas >>> > > > > >> > >> wrote: >>> > >>> > > > > >> > >> > We lack simple explanation that isn't crass Allan. I >>> > > > > >> > >> > have >>> > > little >>> > > > > >> > >> > doubt the rich have stolen the wealth they have and it >>> > > should be taken >>> > > > > >> > >> > from them - but how do we do this without it ending up >>> > > > > >> > >> > with >>> > > big >>> > > > > >> > >> > government that doesn't work any better? I think we are >>> > > tranced by a >>> > > > > >> > >> > work ethic that really makes no sense. We need facts on >>> > > just how much >>> > > > > >> > >> > work needs to be done and how we might organise that. >>> > > Simples! Yet >>> > > > > >> > >> > no answer because we don't understand the 'trancing'. >>> > >>> > > > > >> > >> > On 10 Nov, 07:15, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > > > > >> > >> > > From what I see is the answer lies in manufacturing. >>> > > > > >> > >> > > And >>> > > crazy things >>> > > > > >> > >> > like >>> > > > > >> > >> > > 50% less sales tax on products that are produced in >>> > > > > >> > >> > > the >>> > > country origin, >>> > > > > >> > >> > > that includes good thru all industrial products. >>> > >>> > > > > >> > >> > > Better tax collection on all international >>> > > > > >> > >> > > corporations >>> > > and stock or >>> > > > > >> > >> > money >>> > > > > >> > >> > > sent out of the country. >>> > >>> > > > > >> > >> > > In the US all corporation papers say they agree to >>> > > > > >> > >> > > abide >>> > > by all the laws >>> > > > > >> > >> > > and if they don't they lose all corporate rights and >>> > > privileges. This >>> > > > > >> > >> > > needs to be enforced and you will see major changes in >>> > > business. You >>> > > > > >> > >> > have >>> > > > > >> > >> > > to remember tax evasion is against the law. >>> > > > > >> > >> > > Allan >>> > >>> > > > > >> > >> > > Air gunner full of hot air ready to release it quickly >>> > > > > >> > >> > > On Nov 10, 2012 2:04 AM, "archytas" >>> > > > > >> > >> > > <[email protected]> >>> > > wrote: >>> > >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > The weird thing is that we are being told all sorts >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > of >>> > > stuff can't be >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > 'afforded' - yet productivity is up by factors of >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > ten >>> > > since we did >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > decent things like national health services - we >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > should >>> > > be able to >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > afford loads more. In the UK we were told the >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > answer >>> > > was US >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > management, then Japanese - German stuff had too >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > much >>> > > industrial >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > democracy for our business ethos. Even the IMF has >>> > > realised austerity >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > is a crock. We're in the grips of something else. >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > Debt >>> > > is the >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > obvious answer -but we have to address our attitudes >>> > > towards it. Its >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > owned by robber barons and all link between work and >>> > > reward has really >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > gone. >>> > >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > On 9 Nov, 21:59, Allan H <[email protected]> >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > wrote: >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > > I totally agree with you management is based on >>> > > rot..but from what I >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > > have been reading it is the same problem from eons >>> > > ago,, unchanged >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > > what does it take to get management that is >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > > interested >>> > > in the >>> > >>> > ... >>> > >>> > read more » >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> >> >> > > -- > > > -- ( ) |_D Allan Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. I am a Natural Airgunner - Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly. --
